PNY SD card 16GB (monolithic), require 'pinout'

[sloth]

Hello everyone, I found this website by searching around, as I have had a nightmare with my SD card failing at the end of my holiday and not being able to recover my photos. Before I begin, I am a total technology novice so please excuse my ignorance.

I've sent the card of to a number of recovery companies. The first two said that although the data is theoretically still on the card, it is "impossible" to get to the data because the card has suffered an electronics failure and the card is monolithic. However, it is now with another recovery company who say that recovery from monolithic SD cards might be possible if I have the relevant 'pinout diagram'. I don't really know what this, but I'm trying to get it, as I'm desperate to get these photos back. The card manufacturer is PNY, but they have been less than helpful: the only response I got from them is that "it’s not actually possible to have this information because in simple word the components are mixed. So it’s not possible now to have ‘copper layout and pinout diagram’ of our SD cards." I have no idea whether this is true or not?

Do you guys know if there is anyone/any resource that might have a pinout diagram for this card? Does my request even make sense? In case it helps, I'm attaching a photo of the card in question. Thanks so much if anyone can help!

Sloth

Attachments

[arvika]

Look here: http://www.odzyskiwanie-danych.com.pl/m ... abase.html

Pinout is similar to SD v2 and v16. I think I can try recover your photos.

[sloth]

Hi arvika,

Thanks for your reply. Does it matter that my card is a different size (16gb) and perhaps a different brand to those on your database?

[arvika]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It could be more banks or just other memory (other flash with bigger size in your case).

[HaQue]

+1 for Arvika, if you send your card you have a great chance for recovery. it looks like someone has already at least tried to read the card, judging by the solder on the pads

[pcimage]

+2 for Arvika.

If anyone can, he can!

[HaQue]

So the data recovery company is asking YOU to find the pinout?

[sloth]

Hi HaQue,

They told me they couldn't do anything as they didn't have the right pinout. I asked them to hold on in case I could find it. But I guess maybe I should just get them to forward the card to arvika

another question, a more general one; if it is possible to recover monolith sd cards with electronics failure, why have 2 professional recovery companies (including a supposed 'world leader') told me otherwise?

[HaQue]

Hi HaQue,

They told me they couldn't do anything as they didn't have the right pinout. I asked them to hold on in case I could find it. But I guess maybe I should just get them to forward the card to arvika

Makes sense, and yes you should forward it. They know how to find pinouts in some cases, and there is a chance they already have it.

another question, a more general one; if it is possible to recover monolith sd cards with electronics failure, why have 2 professional recovery companies (including a supposed 'world leader') told me otherwise?

Because when some people don't know something, they either make an educated guess, or uneducated one, or simply bullshit you.

I have seen pictures of snapped chips, broken chips, chips that were decapped and data retrieved, and even data decoded from looking at the actual programmed cells under an SEM. Depends on how far you want to go.

Some electronic faults might also kill the NAND, some might not. If you want to say for a certain case that the electronic problem has made the case unrecoverable... I would like to see how they can say for sure without having the pinout.

I guess if you think the job has no realistic chance of being sent to anyone that can do it, AND you cant do it, you might be tempted to tell the customer that it has an electronic fault and cant be recovered. This has the psychological effect of the customer thinking that you are knowledgeable enough to even know that, and I guess gets them off the hook for a hard, probably not well paying job.

Other companies might "love" doing flash, and want it more than others I guess.

It is quite possible the card is dead, though I am sure anyone that does flash would agree that a dead card(without ovious damage like cracks etc) is in the .1% or lower. The challenge of Monoliths, IMHO, is solely knowing the pinout, most other factors are no different than regular flash recovery.

[hddguy]

I also think that the time and work involved in finding pinouts and recovering them is not justified by what the client is willing to pay. Because the device costs a few bucks to buy, there is this expectation that recovery price will be similarly priced. Recovery websites offering flash recovery for as little as £70 also influence clients perception of the value of the work. From a financial point of view its not beneficial pursuing for many firms.

[sloth]

Thanks. In one case in particular, the contact at the recovery company was adamant that there was no technology in existence that could recovery recover from monolithic cards (with "embedded electronics" as he put it), regardless of how much one might be willing to pay. I'm getting a different feeling from you guys.

I'm getting the impression here that arvika is some sort of monolith specialist - is that right? arvika, I think I will get the recovery company the card is with now to forward it on to you. The only thing I'm concerned about is the wide price range you quote - do you have any idea whether, if you recovered, the cost would be closer to $300 or $600?

Thanks

[arvika]

Heh, specialist... too big words, I just do my job

Yes, if you can, just forward the card to me - i will try to read it or if i don't have pinout i will try to develop it - but then i must have the same working device. It's hard to estimate cost, i need to make some tests before. If this case will be simple for me, price would be closer to the lower value.

Of course no recovery, no fee.

[sloth]

Hi arvika I can't private message you as I am too new. Shall I email you on the address on your website that you linked to?

[arvika]

Yes, email me or add me on skype.

[HaQue]

I know a DR company in Australia, that told me that they charge a small fee for "looking at" a device, but only take jobs they know they can probably do, or outsource easily.. That way they make a little even on the jobs they had no intention of even trying. They don't have a cleanroom, outsource all HDD internals, don't ever try monoliths, The people there are, well, dicks, and seems that the ones that do this kind of practice more than likely are.

They really are ripping off customers, even if it is a small amount, but worse is that some customers will not try and recover their data after being told these lie.

I doubt that they would even bother to read these forums, but if they do, you know who you are, and you should remember the conversation about how you could actually recover more data for customers and outsource, quite easily, and how you said it wasn't worth it to bother doing it..

rant=off

[sloth]

arvika, just emailed you.

[sloth]

I know a DR company in Australia, that told me that they charge a small fee for "looking at" a device, but only take jobs they know they can probably do, or outsource easily.. That way they make a little even on the jobs they had no intention of even trying. They don't have a cleanroom, outsource all HDD internals, don't ever try monoliths, The people there are, well, dicks, and seems that the ones that do this kind of practice more than likely are.

They really are ripping off customers, even if it is a small amount, but worse is that some customers will not try and recover their data after being told these lie.

I doubt that they would even bother to read these forums, but if they do, you know who you are, and you should remember the conversation about how you could actually recover more data for customers and outsource, quite easily, and how you said it wasn't worth it to bother doing it..

rant=off

I won't tell you how much I paid one company for 'diagnosis', only for them to tell me they couldn't do anything because it was a monolith card (which I'd basically already told them, but they said they might be able to do something anyway!).

[HaQue]

Well companies like that might not have heard of social media, and having their practices exposed. They will find out the hard way.

It is one thing to take on a hard job, so that you can get experience from it, or access to a device that you normally would not for education purposes and the possibility to actually recover. That is a valid thing to do, and should be conveyed to the customer, and also should be taken into account when charging. It is another thing entirely to make the customer pay for your benifit of having their device..


Lets say I get a monolith card in that I cannot do, but want to learn. I need to buy a tool such as a Logic Analyser or something and spend 2 week day and night trying to figure it out, which I eventually do, and recover all data.

Now the shop down the road already has everything they need, know all about it and recover the data in hours.. mainly the time is only because of the time to read the chip. data recovered in hours.

So who charges more? Should the customer pay me for doing a job that they really should expect that I can do just as well as the shop down the road? No, I should be thanking him for letting me gain access to a device that I can now take in other jobs just as well as the shop down the road.

If you are honest to the customers, you cant go wrong, some might deny you the job, but you have to live with that.

Ironically, early on I used to talk to the company I spoke about quite alot, sent them many jobs. One guy in particular used to always have the stories of customers saying "we never opened the drive" or "it has never been dropped". he didnt see the irony that he used to bullshit the customers just as much. I wont name them, but if you are getting a job done in eastern Australia, set out YOUR terms carefully. If you are the shop in question, and you actually bother to read up on your craft these days, you would know me.. maybe it is time to be a little more customer oriented. Every time you roar off in that tricked out Maloo, you should feel a pang of guilt

Hmm, there was a topic!? looks around, everyones gone

[sloth]

HaQue, in my case the company was Kroll Ontrack, which I understand are one of the biggest global data recovery companies. Sent it to them as I thought that they would have the best prospects of recovering my data, and try the most unique processes. Clearly not...

[arvika]

In nowadays most popular and biggest means "they have good marketing department" But how about technology, engineers, development? This is the most important in DR business, not marketing stuff...