I prefer to work on what we have now, and not even worry about the future. It will trickle in like Monoliths has.. we will start to get a few cases in and say "Hmm WTF is this?" research it, scratch our heads and figure it out. Well, to be honest, you smart guys will figure it out and us normal folk will play catch up

lets face it, think of how big these NAND factories are, how ingrained NAND is.. can you imagine in the next 2 -3 years any real significant change or even a hint of any of these technologies in consumer market (at least in any significant quantity that we would have to make any type of business decision on)

I would hazard to suggest that a replacement to NAND would have to be significantly faster, be able to hold magnitudes more data and be fairly cheap and sustainable for any of the followers to take it up. By follower I mean this: an organisation or group bring out a technology. It doesnt become cheap and widespread until the followers knock it off/start producing it. These guys cant afford to knock it off until most of the R&D has been done and the tech "works" this takes an arbitrary amount of time.

so we have the tech announced as the next best thing, it comes out wildly expensive, then the followers need to get it and start mass producing it. The first stage is where we get to see it, maybe have a case or 2, maybe figure out something, but it wont make us rich unless stage 2 is in full swing.

been driving all night so hopefully you catch my drift.

IMHO we are all going to be cursing bit errors from crappy NANDs for a few years yet.. my wholly untechnical opinion

your right on that one

but these days they find the cheapest supplier and use there product rather then have quality controllers

enclose is a photo of a worker checking for chip failure

yes that picture is almost accurate, the reason why he is smiling is because he is looking at a picture of a monkey designing NAND chips... his title is NAND Chimp...

EDIT - That joke was WAY funnier in my head..!

Here is a very long thread where people have been thrashing their SSDs to death:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/sho ... nm-Vs-34nm

All except OCZ's products have greatly exceeded their endurance specifications. A Samsung 830 256GB was particularly impressive.

That said, one person remarked that the most disturbing result of all this testing is that when SSDs fail, they become inaccessible rather than dropping back to readonly mode, as the manufacturers would like to have us believe.

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A backup a day keeps DR away.

Would you agree that is because the failure is not the NAND cells failing, which is what the manuf's are explaining away, but the controllers or some component on the PCB?

They excist allready. I believe these are the so called hybrid drives...

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Murphy was an optimist

Datarecovery in Belgium, Holland, France and Germany
Datarecoverytools http://www.drtools.eu

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
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Yes: much more relaible says the Youtuber.
No moving parts, look! (proceeds to drop SSD on the lid of the laptop, multiple times)
********************************

Well, reliability issues: I'm with the "SSD for OS", & "spinning disk for storage" brigade.
Golden image of OS and backup of data.
As i swap between OS's the drive often corrupts despite being powered down correctly before removal.

SSD:
Maybe its the rush to cram in as much storage as possible, for as cheap as possible and hoping the consumer stays at a low duty cycle or trades in (like phones) before they become a warranty problem.

Much as heavy duty bomb-proof drives were the norm, could and still do run 24/7 under load, consumer expectation & demand drive the price, and the quality, down.

The PCs/laptops i see in such poor state are usually the feature rich quality poor variety.
Peddled at national level by companies trying to underprice each other.
These then are kept as near as possible to the largest source of household dirt or fluff to guarantee least airflow and high internal temperature.

Often filled with enough ports and bays to warrant you own generator should you fill them, and grills with enough debris in there you would think they were trialling Dual Cyclone Technology.

Slow CPU/net? hardware prob?
No; so much bundled free trials and crapware preinstalled that you view the internet through a letterbox, and wait til every last one of them calls home for updates or tries to predict which advert you should see next.
And this is before the kids get their hands on and fill the thing with as much virus riddled social media swapped music/gaming/pr0n they can lay their hands on.

All this with a PSU that would have stability problems sustaining a bicycle lamp.

The bad part?
Some folks are actually running businesses on the kind of crapware targetted at the casual internet/email/wordpro/fashionista that cost tuppence ha'penny. (old money, very cheap)

All i can say is, **** make backup your number one priority *****

backups! ... now ... where's that floppy ...

Kern (having a bad sector day:/ )
/rant off

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Когда хочется кушать – съешь всё.
Голод не тётка!

How can you tell?

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A backup a day keeps DR away.

In my opinion, because a high percentage of failures lie with the controller.

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Hard Disk Drive, SSD, USB Drive and RAID Data Recovery Specialist in Massachusetts

I have nothing to back it up, but it makes sense to me that if the NAND had an issue, the controller might have enough control to drop back to RO mode, but if the controller failed it might not have the control flow to do it - unless it was a hardware implemented failsafe, and I doubt that. Its nigh on impossible to do a controlled test and get anything meaningful if you wanted to take the whole NAND flash scene into account

I should have said DRAM volatile cache. Not the tiny SSD + big HDD combo.

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On a clear disk you can seek forever.

Crossbar Resistive Memory: The Future Technology for NAND Flash:
http://www.crossbar-inc.com/assets/img/ ... 080413.pdf

"Scaling NAND technology adversely impacts the retention and cycling characteristics of Flash NAND and the storage system. For example, scaling from 72nm to 20nm has shown an increase of the raw bit error rate (BER) from 1e-7 to 1e-2, and a decrease of cycling from 10,000 cycles to below 3,000 cycles."

That's a bit error rate of 1 in 100. Not as bad as 1 in 5 or 10, but it's still surprisingly low.

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A backup a day keeps DR away.

You know.. Over the years I've seen all sorts of game-changing memory technology being touted as the next best thing.

And in reality, since the 1950's, we've seen only a few technologies become mainstream.

DRAM, Masked ROM, FlashRom and EPROM (semiconductor memory and variants)
Magnetic HDD and disks (like we have today)
CD/DVD reflective optical

Semiconductor, Magnetic, Optical. That's 3 major technologies, everything else has remained confined to laboratory or has been the subject of sensational technical articles.

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On a clear disk you can seek forever.

Once that heating up reviving technology is on the market - it will change the world of storage devices


RRAM seems promising too - http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showt ... p?t=188507

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SAN, NAS, RAID, Server, and HDD Data Recovery.

According to Wikipedia, Panasonic were sampling an evaluation kit involving an MCU with embedded ReRAM in May 2012.

http://panasonic.co.jp/corp/news/offici ... 515-1.html

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A backup a day keeps DR away.

Well, kilobytes of space are not impressive
Crossbar promises gigabytes, that's more up to date technology

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SAN, NAS, RAID, Server, and HDD Data Recovery.

Maybe V-NAND will be the next thing?

Samsung Starts Mass Producing Industry's First 3D Vertical NAND Flash:
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/ ... wsId=12990

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A backup a day keeps DR away.

STOP IT! I have enough trouble wrapping my head around good old NAND

Take-two..

You've read the articles, seen the corporate spiels, the promises.. For new memory technology that promises to be a game changer. It's all non-sense.

Look! Since the 1950's, we've seen only a few memory technologies become mainstream.

DRAM, SRAM, Masked ROM, FlashRom and EPROM (semiconductor memory and its variants)
Magnetic HDD and disks
CD/DVD reflective optical

Semiconductor, Magnetic, Optical. That's 3 major technologies. And all major advances in these three arenas have come in the form of density improvement. Speed improvements are a secondary offshoot of higher density and smaller geometries.

All these other whizbang holographic, crystal, quantum this-quantum that.. The crap you read about in pop-sci and other mainstream pulp mags. Everything! .. All of it, has remained confined to laboratory or has been the subject of sensational technical articles.

NAND is the latest major consumer-oriented memory technology! What else is there?

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On a clear disk you can seek forever.

agreed Keatah,
I refer to my previous post. Even IF something new comes along, the there are years until a) we will need to make a business decision based on it and b) we need to stop figuring out how to recover NAND.

This makes me believe I need to concentrate on NAND and keep the other fluff in my periphery(at best).

Although that by no means means (dbl ngtve?) we cant be wowed by the 3D polygon organic micro-quantum holograhic spheric storage cells, or discuss it