Arvika: yes I thought it might be a good way, but it is *want* not *need*
LarrySabo - I know, unreal. I can only image the carnage during testing, I'd love to see that video as well
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| Wire Bonding http://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=29721 |
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| Author: | HaQue [ October 12th, 2014, 22:27 ] |
| Post subject: | Wire Bonding |
I was starting to look around for a reasonable cost Wire Bonding machine. I don't know a great deal about them, aside from they are FREAKING AWESOME! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-iuT_o8f00 I really only need one that is slow, does up to 40 bonds and is manual - if there are low end ones like that. It seems every tiny detail in storage technology has a few peoples whole research lives wrapped around it. I found this post particularly interesting: http://electroiq.com/blog/2005/07/wire-bonding-tutorial/ |
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| Author: | arvika [ October 13th, 2014, 2:59 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wire Bonding |
You need it to wire the monolith? Or for other purpose? |
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| Author: | LarrySabo [ October 13th, 2014, 10:03 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wire Bonding |
@ Haque: Wow, the second link article is mind-boggling, especially when you think of the challenges of manufacturing the tools. |
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| Author: | HaQue [ October 13th, 2014, 11:30 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wire Bonding |
Arvika: yes I thought it might be a good way, but it is *want* not *need* LarrySabo - I know, unreal. I can only image the carnage during testing, I'd love to see that video as well
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| Author: | arvika [ October 13th, 2014, 15:23 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wire Bonding |
Hmm, but this machine must be programmed to work. It is a lot of time I think. Manual soldering monoliths takes about 10-15 minutes, in smaller traces little more. So i don't know if it is highly recommended for this purpose
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| Author: | HaQue [ October 13th, 2014, 18:24 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wire Bonding |
Yes, that one is not really what I was thinking of, more like some kind of setup with a microscope, some way to accurately hold, position and bond the wires. Would be a LOT simpler than the links I posted. Agree not totally necessary, oh and 10-15mins is pretty good going 
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| Author: | arvika [ October 13th, 2014, 18:58 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wire Bonding |
As i used to say: soldering first five hundred monolith is always hard 
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| Author: | HaQue [ October 13th, 2014, 20:19 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wire Bonding |
I am buying at least 30 cards/fash drives per month and the ratio of monoliths is still only around 15% if you don't count MicroSD. I have no idea why manufacturers still do the whole PCB and full chips still. Maybe it is because they have so much vested in the machinery and factories that to change is too costly. |
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| Author: | jeremyb [ October 14th, 2014, 0:51 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wire Bonding |
HaQue wrote: :) I am buying at least 30 cards/fash drives per month and the ratio of monoliths is still only around 15% if you don't count MicroSD. I have no idea why manufacturers still do the whole PCB and full chips still. Maybe it is because they have so much vested in the machinery and factories that to change is too costly. It seems like there are fewer USB monolithics out there now than a year ago. I agree, I'm not sure why OEM's haven't switched to them, the only downside seems to be speed. I'm not sure why, you can use the same NAND & Controller as a standard flash drive. Perhaps its a production issue in that the manufacturer can use whatever combination they want without informing the OEM. I think it would lower their cost.. 1 floor of machinery eliminated, workers fired.. The dimensions are identical so the only thing that changes is the injection molded plastic.. It makes more business sense to me. If you know the case design you can almost always get a monolithic drive however I bought a USB 3.0 PNY Attache almost positive it would be monolithic and it wasn't.. Look at how much is required to make a regular flash drive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_6mMFmes1s |
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| Author: | HaQue [ October 14th, 2014, 9:41 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wire Bonding |
I love those videos, the Lexar one is cool as well (all that great tech and they use crappy NANDS!). The pick and place machines are incredible.. I still think they speed the video up, even though I know they don't! |
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| Author: | Matiw [ October 14th, 2014, 14:08 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wire Bonding |
I think that most Flash drive manufactures are separate companies (not related with Chip manufacturers); most are sort of assemblers. In case of Monolith Flash drives, only one company is involved in the whole process, except, probably during the packaging and branding processes. If monolith technology takes over, I believe that a whole lot of Flash drive makers will be shuttered. Thus the reluctance in switching to monolith. jeremyb wrote: HaQue wrote: :) I am buying at least 30 cards/fash drives per month and the ratio of monoliths is still only around 15% if you don't count MicroSD. I have no idea why manufacturers still do the whole PCB and full chips still. Maybe it is because they have so much vested in the machinery and factories that to change is too costly. It seems like there are fewer USB monolithics out there now than a year ago. I agree, I'm not sure why OEM's haven't switched to them, the only downside seems to be speed. I'm not sure why, you can use the same NAND & Controller as a standard flash drive. Perhaps its a production issue in that the manufacturer can use whatever combination they want without informing the OEM. I think it would lower their cost.. 1 floor of machinery eliminated, workers fired.. The dimensions are identical so the only thing that changes is the injection molded plastic.. It makes more business sense to me. If you know the case design you can almost always get a monolithic drive however I bought a USB 3.0 PNY Attache almost positive it would be monolithic and it wasn't.. Look at how much is required to make a regular flash drive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_6mMFmes1s |
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| Author: | jeremyb [ October 14th, 2014, 22:50 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wire Bonding |
I think tier 1 OEM's take reference designs and manufacture the PCB's. I think tier 2 OEM's buy flash drives from Asia and silk screen their name. What I want to know is who manufactures monolithic drives. Model numbers starting with FAB, rectangular vs. oval usb pads, etc. I wonder what the significance is. I'm not sure its cost effective for a tier 1 OEM to manufacture USB monolithics however SanDisk does, although they're in the MicroSD game so they're used to fabricating monolithics. I can imagine a tier 1 OEM calling their vendor asking what's the cheapest 8GB you have and a machine automatically putting monolithic chips in usb connectors. I don't think monolithic would shake up the industry. Tier 2's don't care what they get as long as it has their name silk screened, tier 1's need to retool but they save in manufacturing costs. |
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| Author: | HaQue [ October 15th, 2014, 0:01 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wire Bonding |
I guess you've seen bunnie's blog and other info about the visit to the "factory" where they make monoliths.. with a bamboo suction cup and pick and place by hand.. http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=2946 I wouldn't think there would be a massive volume coming out of this factory though. It is hard to find a clear manufacturer of monoliths, and they seem to be mostly in crappy(I assume) novelty USBs. If the bigger ones do it for general consumption, they don't seem to want to advertise too much. On a side note, remember all those days we unwillingly went shopping, had to wait while the wife felt every dress in the store but never bought one, and hosted 4 year olds pirate themed birthday parties... is taking here the PERFECT revenge!? http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2009/a-visit-to-the-electronics-markets-of-shenzhen/ |
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| Author: | HaQue [ October 15th, 2014, 0:17 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wire Bonding |
Side note 2: seems the 512GiB Samsung 850 Pro actually uses V-NAND.. see the recent write up of the latest in the Novena Fab(can skip to Hard Drive section if you are not interested in the other awesomeness) Quote: This isn’t some lame Intel-style bra-padding exercise. This is full-on process technology bad-assery at its finest. This is Neo decoding the Matrix. This is Mal shooting first. It’s a stack of almost 40 individual, active transistors in a single spot. It’s a game changer, and it’s not vapor ware. Heirloom backers will get a laptop with over 4 trillion of these transistors packed inside, and it will be awesome. Sorry, I get excited about these kinds of things. -So do I bunnie, So do I! http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?cat=19 |
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| Author: | jeremyb [ October 15th, 2014, 1:48 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wire Bonding |
Thanks for the share, my favorite line is "The silicon chips have been thinned down by grinding off their back sides". Most monolithics I encounter say Made in Korea so I assume there is some high volume manufacture producing them. MicroSD is mainstream, I'd assume the manufacturing process would be the same. Perhaps Samsung is really manufacturing all the Made in Korea monolithics, lol.. |
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| Author: | networkpc3000 [ October 31st, 2014, 8:38 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Wire Bonding |
i did such research around one two years ago. it more hard to do. before i plain find the way for easy soldering with PCB or connect silicon chip directly. some reason i giveup this way at the moment: 1, too much step prepare before bonding. and it very dangerous 2, had to find pinout for connect with silicon chip. it hard. and too much models. http://www.rflashdata.com/monolith-usb- ... sassembly/ |
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