pc-3000 from russia

[arvika]

Friends, here in Poland we have a statement: Russia is not a country, it is state of mind.

[Moltke]

Friends, here in Poland we have a statement:Russia is not a country, it is state of mind.

Where is the "Poland"?

[CK]

I can't understand the problem here. Prices for products and services are different in different countries, depending on economic circumstances.

I don't recall the exact terminology used in the Acelab contract but you are not buying the card, you are merely paying for a licence. The card remains the property of Ace.

If you don't like the price, don't buy the product, simple as that.

Most DR professionals make multiples of the cost of a PC3K per month. In fact, I consider it very good value.

[arvika]

Where is the "Poland"?

Its behind Polar Circle. You can associate Polar Land, So it give Poland. Simple We have polar bear, snow etc.

PS. I hope you feel sarcasm...
_____

PC3K is not the need by necessities like water or bread. If you don't accept the rules, just don't buy it.

[Moltke]

Its behind Polar Circle. You can associate Polar Land, So it give Poland. Simple We have polar bear, snow etc.
PS. I hope you feel sarcasm...

p.s. I live 50 miles from Poland. in the State Russian

[arvika]

Haha

[HaQue]

Legally you are not suppose to use Russian cards outside of Russia, so please don't ask for illegal solutions here

Russian law does not apply outside of Russia.

In fact there are precedents in Australian law that prohibit discriminatory pricing. For example, Australian courts have upheld the right for users to hack their Sony PlayStations to circumvent Sony's predatory restrictions. We can also buy DVD players without region coding, right out of the box. However, there are some vague interpretations of copyright law that appear to prevent parallel importation of certain products.

sure, there are different laws in different countries
But PC3000 is not easy to hack, and they can do whatever they want with your card, theoretically

I am speaking to the last part.

Sure, but once it is hacked, game over, that protection is dead. Themida, dongles, secure-rom, ASProtect, file packers, the list goes on. Very strong security, all have a 20kb or so Util to beat them.

protections are arguably harder to develop that the actual tool. One tiny mistake and the whole thing is not worth a pinch of shit. On the other hand, many many mistakes in the tool can still be a useful tool to own.

How much R&D are they putting in to the protection? Would PC3K be happy to know that $2,500 of a $5,000 tool is going to the security engineering? would you be happy to know the feature you need to solve your cases is not being worked on, but a new encryption is being deloped by 10 engineers. maybe, but what if it is broken?

And no, they cannot do whatever they want with your card.
2 examples:
1) Sony put a rootkit on one of their Music titles to allow them to see if a user was pirating it. Well that put them in a world of legal battles. Also the many protections they have, as Fzabkar said, they fight in court to even have it unlawful to beat them, and losing.
2) iPhone app that displayed a message to the user that they should not use pirate software, after a bug displayed the message to authorised users. Again, they got into some legal trouble.

The only justification for a very expensive tool should be that is is worth that much in function and cost of development. Not just a massive fee to give people that can afford it a warm fuzzy, and keep the peasants away, and not because they charge foreigners a different fee for comradery.

On the other hand, if a company is being fair, lawful and ethical in their contracts, users should buy the tool in acceptance of the terms, and if they cant afford it, or don't like it, then bad luck

[Moltke]

HaQue,

Sure, but once it is hacked, game over, that protection is dead. Themida, dongles, secure-rom, ASProtect, file packers, the list goes on. Very strong security, all have a 20kb or so Util to beat them.

Assume that you can break. But there can take? 10 ATA.commands and interface?
The game is not worth the candle.

[HaQue]

HaQue,

Sure, but once it is hacked, game over, that protection is dead. Themida, dongles, secure-rom, ASProtect, file packers, the list goes on. Very strong security, all have a 20kb or so Util to beat them.

Assume that you can break. But there can take? 10 ATA.commands and interface?
The game is not worth the candle.

Unless you are the competition or a manufacturer in another country that want to pirate the tool.

I can't understand the problem here. Prices for products and services are different in different countries, depending on economic circumstances.

You don't see a problem getting charged many times over the price someone else gets charged? Getting charged a bit extra for different economic circumstance is one thing, getting charged many times over is another thing entirely.

I don't recall the exact terminology used in the Acelab contract but you are not buying the card, you are merely paying for a licence. The card remains the property of Ace.
Yes and it is common for licensing schemes to be a massive difference in pricing, for education, hobby licenses, community editions etc.. usually the product is different though, stripped down or other reasons.. where a "pro" license is more expensive

Most DR professionals make multiples of the cost of a PC3K per month. In fact, I consider it very good value.

Sure, If you are making $30,000 a month of course you can pay for the thing. Though smaller shops that don't must fel a little pissed that the thing is WORTH whatever it is, as evidence of the Russian price, but COSTS many times more making it unaffordable.

If you don't like the price, don't buy the product, simple as that.

Agree 100%

By the way I don't know the cost of these in any country, and shouldn't be read singling out ACE, I am using it as an example of the practice of doing this sort of thing.
For all I now, ACE may be very fair to everyone... I probably should have used a fake company name, but as I have heard of different prices for different countries, I used the name.

In no way am I saying the products are not worth the money as it is quite obvious from many people they are.

[craig6928]

you wont see any hacked version

as they are using a very good encrypted system on the card
plus it has to talk with the server first when you install it

once your card is active if you try to read or remove the ic its bye bye data as the chip destroy itself but the data is encrypted.


there is no information on the new card when its posted out to the buyer except the security dongle

everything is kept secure on the server

which downloads everything onto the card and unlocks it for use

if someone was working at the factory and decided to steal one its no good to them

information downloaded to the card includes ownership and your locations and your ip is recorded first time

clone the location and your ip address

then the card and server will think its at that location

and there no shutting down the card automatic

[craig6928]

I purchased the PC-3000+DE in the Russian office ACE $ 2000. such price on their territory of Russia . But they told me that if I will take the card to another country, they will block it. Is it possible?

yep your right the russian price is a lot cheaper all there products are cheaper

main reason why is because it be in your native Language

where if someone needs to buy a english version it cost a lot more because of the translations

they can block the card if you connect it up to the internet

its a talk back system with the servers to confirm location of the card etc and ip
other meaning it automatic talks back and you dont know its doing so

[dick]

Out of interest would this crazy restrictive use policy also apply to the PC3000 portable version?
For me portable would mean just that. Take it with you to work any place any where any country. Anybody know?

[HaQue]

Well Craig, Ive seen some pretty amazing reverse engineering stuff, such as on top of chips circuit there is a woven snake layer that has different circuits buit into the weave. so if you break the weave by probing it can change or destroy the circuit. Chip reverse engineers then attack it from the back to defeat this. I think it was a defcon or black hat talk that the guy was showing the technique. Amazing stuff. It could have actually been the guy that run Linux(in a rudimentary way) on a HDD once, but not 100% on that. Also many defeated tech with "talk to the server" type protections and such.
Some of the more aggressive piraters will steal IP from the factory itself, then no need to break it.. Even going so far as to clone the whole factory itself amazing stuff to think about.

Not really on topic about pirating it, more about the cost and terms of contract.

Good question about the portable version, I suspect it would be same deal about changing countries.

[vvpc]

Out of interest would this crazy restrictive use policy also apply to the PC3000 portable version?
For me portable would mean just that. Take it with you to work any place any where any country. Anybody know?

portable version for the same conditions. No export outside the state where they purchased!

[vvpc]

lousy service! shocking customer service! feeling that they are doing us a favor by selling their equipment. On a question by e-mail about buying, waited a week! had to call on the phone. imagine what they then give support? if you are not interested to sell, what would happen when people pay them?

[HaQue]

You should never judge a company by a single missed email or something so simple. many reasons why no response.
Many companies do not reply to email, and having to call on the phone is not that hard. IMHO, this is not a display of "lousy service! shocking customer service!".

For what its worth, If they believe in their product then I have no problem them thinking they are doing us a favour by selling their equipment to us. I would rather that than them sucking up to us and peddling a poor product like some other company I won't name that begins with Salvation and ends with Data. (actually it ends with NO data)

[Doomer]

How much R&D are they putting in to the protection?

Judging by the complexity of the protection - they didn't put any R&D in it, they bought it
And the protection is good
I mean you could probably hack one version for one card at one time but having universal solution is extremely difficult and because the market is limited - not a lot of hackers would be interested in doing such job. Also, if you have the brains to hack PC3000 you would sure have the brains to create your own utility, maybe even better than PC3000

Last edited by Doomer on February 16th, 2014, 20:43, edited 1 time in total.

[Doomer]

2 examples:
1) Sony put a rootkit on one of their Music titles to allow them to see if a user was pirating it. Well that put them in a world of legal battles. Also the many protections they have, as Fzabkar said, they fight in court to even have it unlawful to beat them, and losing.
2) iPhone app that displayed a message to the user that they should not use pirate software, after a bug displayed the message to authorised users. Again, they got into some legal trouble.

I don't think you would be even remotely close to winning in Russian court

[HaQue]

2 examples:
1) Sony put a rootkit on one of their Music titles to allow them to see if a user was pirating it. Well that put them in a world of legal battles. Also the many protections they have, as Fzabkar said, they fight in court to even have it unlawful to beat them, and losing.
2) iPhone app that displayed a message to the user that they should not use pirate software, after a bug displayed the message to authorised users. Again, they got into some legal trouble.

I don't think you would be even remotely close to winning in Russian court

Wouldn't even try I pick my battles