Media Cleaning

[magneto]

Has anyone done any experimenting with different cleaning solutions for the platters?

[mediaman]

what kind of contamination are you seeing? fingerprints and dust from working on the disk or "ground up head and platter"?

post a picture or two to make things fun and tempt useful replies..

[magneto]

Mostly fingerprints. Some dust. I'm studying the platter surface's lubricant. I have a pic of one of the platters in the study. I have tried 3M's PF-5060 as a lubricant. Unfortunately I don't know of a way to apply an equivalent layer of lubricant by hand that is equal to the way the manufacturer does. I have also run into a couple issues with using the lubricant under a cleanroom. The direct air causes it to react differently than when in a normal air environment. Has anyone seen or factually learned the application process of the lubricant layer on the media surfaces? I've read of laser application to form molecular bonds with the previous layer but I haven't found any real documentation.

Please keep all posts focused on the subject matter. This isn't in a data recovery stage. This is just the study of the different cleaning methods and the re-lubrication process. Basically, please don't waste time with "Send to a pro" responses.

All subject related responses are greatly appreciated.

Attachments

[mediaman]

wow, thats a messy platter swap attempt

I am very new here so forgive my lack of depth, but I would like to understand why you want to re-lube. AFAIK not all disks use lube. Assuming that your only intention is datarecovery I would image you could just clean and replace without worrying about lube. as long as the head was on the landing zone or ramp, and the disk spins up OK, it shouldn't stick.

to remove fingerprints: a clean cotton wool bud (called Qtips in the US I think) with 99.9% alcohol in very slow circles, working outwards to edge of platter. working with the air flow of your clean bench in your favour also helps.

[jono-ats]

I've had good luck with isopropyl 99.99% pure alcohol and a lint-free tampon. I spin the platter and wipe the tampon from the inner track to the outer. The platter comes out clean and shiny.

I'm not sure that my wife is happy with this solution, but I feel kind of funny standing in the check-out line with my box of O.B. Supers . . . .

Jon

[magneto]

wow, thats a messy platter swap attempt

No attempt at a platter swap here. Straight up testing. Pull the platter out. Put marks on it. See what cleans it the best. Advanced stages will include an attempt at recovering data off of the platter. I thought that I needed to relubricate the platters. I've done many successful headswaps (without any worry about lubricant). As well as firmware repair and logical file system repair. I just don't have any decent, trustworthy sites to pull information about the the platter manufacturing process.

I would like to understand why you want to re-lube. AFAIK not all disks use lube. Assuming that your only intention is datarecovery I would image you could just clean and replace without worrying about lube. as long as the head was on the landing zone or ramp, and the disk spins up OK, it shouldn't stick.

I was under the assumption, and it is an assumption, that all platters received a layer of lubricant. If this isn't the case then I would hope that we would have some on here that would know specific instances (i.e. makes and models) and would share. Any chance you have some better references for me? Where I got most of my information was patent information and searches.

to remove fingerprints: a clean cotton wool bud (called Qtips in the US I think) with 99.9% alcohol in very slow circles, working outwards to edge of platter. working with the air flow of your clean bench in your favour also helps.

I've had good luck with isopropyl 99.99% pure alcohol and a lint-free tampon. I spin the platter and wipe the tampon from the inner track to the outer. The platter comes out clean and shiny.

I'm not sure that my wife is happy with this solution, but I feel kind of funny standing in the check-out line with my box of O.B. Supers . . . .

Jon

These are good suggestions that I'm going to give a whirl. I'm definitely focused on the cleaning process as well. I can tell you that my girl wouldn't care what I was standing in line with at the store as long as I'm pulling in $$$ with it and that I'm happy doing it. And truthfully neither would I, LOL.

[mediaman]

this first bit was a joke.(platter swap)

just out of interest do you know why the lubricant is used? (question for magneto, I know the answer

[Daisy Woo]

The lubrication layer is only in the parking zone and is a coating rather than a spray like WD40.

There is some info about the layers of a platter here.
http://www.mjmdatarecovery.co.uk/workin ... tters.html
A good book about this and other hard disk technology (albeit somewhat dated now) is;
Magnetic Disk Drive Technology by Kanu G. Asher

Which is where the above website got their info (according to the credits)

Daisy

[magneto]

this first bit was a joke.(platter swap)

sorry internet humor is a tough one for me because I try not to be insulting. If I laughed at it and you were serious you might have been offended. Additionally, there are very many cultures on here that react in different ways. So it was really out of respect and the attempt to maintain a good reputation on these sites. I promise I've got a sense of humor.

just out of interest do you know why the lubricant is used? (question for magneto, I know the answer

I understood it to be used to reduce the likelihood of damage from "Stiction" and other head-to-platter contact.

@Mediaman
My thought process for the need to re-lubricate the platters comes from the idea that I'm working with extremely dirty platters that could possibly lose the lubrication layer during the cleaning process. I don't know how many people have researched the effects of Isopropyl alcohol on the lubrication layer and it's state after being subjected to many chemicals and organic compounds. That's what I'm aiming for in the end. I don't want to recreate the wheel if someone has already studied these effects. Also, the effects of different types of water on the platter surfaces.

The lubrication layer is only in the parking zone and is a coating rather than a spray like WD40.

There is some info about the layers of a platter here.
http://www.mjmdatarecovery.co.uk/workin ... tters.html
A good book about this and other hard disk technology (albeit somewhat dated now) is;
Magnetic Disk Drive Technology by Kanu G. Asher

Which is where the above website got their info (according to the credits)

Daisy

@ Daisy
Thanks for the info. I actually have that book here in-house but have not spent enough time reading the whole thing cover-to-cover. I've read through parts that were suggested. I will take additional time to read a little more. Can you tell me where you get the information about the lubrication layer only being in the landing zone? When I did read the site you suggested I didn't come away with the idea that the lubrication layer was only in the landing zone. It did specifically mention that it helps there but not that it was only there.

"# Lubrication Layer The last layer is an organic polymer lubricant material to minimize head-to-platter contact friction. When the heads park on the platters, it is this layer that prevents excessive wear to the heads as they take-off and land"

I take from this (and I know it's just one source of information) that it is completely covering the platter but specifically helps in the landing zone. I got on here to get rid of any of my assumptions and replace them with facts in this area, so by all means if there is a reputable source that clearly states this, please share! Also please forgive me. My intention is not to troubleshoot you or put your knowledge into question but anyone can join a forum. If we just listened to what everyone said then a lot of us would be using hard drive spray. I like to find out where people are getting their information.

Thanks for everyone's input so far. I appreciate all the suggestions and sharing of information.

[mediaman]

i have little experience to be honest magneto, and I maybe doing things wrong, but i have opened quite a few disks with various problems, from stuck heads, swaps, etc, and have often cleaned dirt off the platters (as described). I use a clean bench, and have been professionally trained. I have never re-lubed and I have never had anything stick again after assembly (at least up until imaging and storing the disk away). I have also messed up a few too (mainly my own )

Point taken on humour, sorry if it sounded harsh. if notice how I've spelled "humour" you may have an idea where my dark humour comes from.

[magneto]

i have little experience to be honest magneto, and I maybe doing things wrong, but i have opened quite a few disks with various problems, from stuck heads, swaps, etc, and have often cleaned dirt off the platters (as described). I use a clean bench, and have been professionally trained. I have never re-lubed and I have never had anything stick again after assembly (at least up until imaging and storing the disk away).

I truthfully wasn't too worried about the heads sticking after a head swap. I was worried more about recreating the buffer for the heads that came from the factory in instances where the cleaning process was extensive. I have plenty of experience and know that I can still use plenty more. I haven't had to re-lube many drives and I have had many successful recoveries. I'm trying to be more successful. After hurricane Katrina many data recovery professionals were challenged with the task of recovering drives that were subjected to long periods underwater. This can erode and eliminate the protective layers. I am just trying to push our industry further. I'm not trying to point out that people have faulty methods, I'm trying to develop new ones collectively.

I have also messed up a few too (mainly my own )

I too have sent many a drive to their untimely end!! LOL

Point taken on humour, sorry if it sounded harsh. if notice how I've spelled "humour" you may have an idea where my dark humour comes from.

You didn't sound harsh and I immediately noticed your spelling

[scratchy]

The lubrication layer is usually all over the surface of the platter(s). I think the reference on mjms website to landing and taking of is an example of the purpose of the layer rather than it's physical location.

<itch>

[drc]

Though with the whole concept of "air bearing" I understood that nothing is actually touching the platter in the data area, and that when something does you have a head crash.

Thus lubrication on data area would not be necessary?

[shaun]

Now the topic becomes interesting. I also thought it is a special coating on the landing zone and that the data area is covered only with a very hard coating to prevent immediate damage in the case of heavy vibrations. Who knows The Truth(TM), or does it probably vary from manufacturer to manufacturer?

[BlackST]

The technology is almost the same, however there are variants. Can't "disclose" more, here.

[bnice]

Can't "disclose" more, here.

It's a class of learning, why post that.

[BlackST]

Non-disclosure agreement. Back to media cleaning, you can always ask a sales representative of major chemical industries if interested on media cleaning products, the only thing to consider is the quantity to buy or shipped. A workaround for this could be joining 2 or 3 or more friends and buy. There are lots of acqueous and non-acqueous-residue-free solvents and cleaners for the purpose, but the compatibility should be tested, maybe on scrap drives.
P.S. for "lube" is not always intended a liquid coating.

[magneto]

Non-disclosure agreement. Back to media cleaning, you can always ask a sales representative of major chemical industries if interested on media cleaning products, the only thing to consider is the quantity to buy or shipped. A workaround for this could be joining 2 or 3 or more friends and buy. There are lots of acqueous and non-acqueous-residue-free solvents and cleaners for the purpose, but the compatibility should be tested, maybe on scrap drives.
P.S. for "lube" is not always intended a liquid coating.

I understand about the NDA. It sucks but understandable. I spoke with 3M a lot about their products. I eventually went with PF-5060. It's a performance lubricant but has some drawbacks that I mentioned in the first or second post. That's actually why I started the post because I wasn't sure if others had tried similar products or had some info on adding the lube. Could you elaborate a little on the last statement?

[BlackST]

I mean that a thin lube coating is applied to the platters but it is absolutely part of the platter, not anything "wet" (the spinning force would spatter it everywhere inside the HDA !). The platter fabrication process is rather complicated and involves strict process control, chemistry, physics and precision micromachining (the incidence of platters on the overall drive cost seems to be about 35/40%). Also, hi-tech chemical/vapour deposition systems are needed for deposition of coating, magnetic layers etc. so most probably is not possible to apply with the necessary uniformity and precision anything "at home".
All the platters I have seen recently didn't seem to have any "grease" on the surface, but I have clearly seen a notice on some drives that moisture can react with the platter lubrication, probably they mean that moisture can condense into micro drops like on a greasy window making a helluva mess inside the HDA chamber.

[Amarbir[CDR-Labs]]

I mean that a thin lube coating is applied to the platters but it is absolutely part of the platter, not anything "wet" (the spinning force would spatter it everywhere inside the HDA !). The platter fabrication process is rather complicated and involves strict process control, chemistry, physics and precision micromachining (the incidence of platters on the overall drive cost seems to be about 35/40%). Also, hi-tech chemical/vapour deposition systems are needed for deposition of coating, magnetic layers etc. so most probably is not possible to apply with the necessary uniformity and precision anything "at home".
All the platters I have seen recently didn't seem to have any "grease" on the surface, but I have clearly seen a notice on some drives that moisture can react with the platter lubrication, probably they mean that moisture can condense into micro drops like on a greasy window making a helluva mess inside the HDA chamber.

Lightning ,
Great Explanation man ,Keep up the good Work