What is the best method of storing backups?

[loye]

Hello

I would like to know what is the best method of storing backups.

I want to know this since hard drives can have have problems, cd's may deteriorate over time, dvd's bluray,s etc?

Will usb pens' flash last longer?

What would be the best method of keeping backups secure all the time, with no risk of loss, and also a cheap one if possible?

[Vulcan]

I would like to know what is the best method of storing backups.

Actually your question is really about archiving, which is a slightly different subject from backups (which are usually defined as copies of working data, and therefore are not stored long-term without being updated).

What would be the best method of keeping backups secure all the time, with no risk of loss, and also a cheap one if possible?

AFAIK, there is no current technology which fits all those requirements. Many large corporations use tape for archiving, but that still has a finite expected life, needs careful environmental conditions, is not particularly cheap etc. etc. Many public entities (e.g. national libraries) have been looking at long-term archival solutions (do some reading about archiving on Google - I did this a couple of years ago and there were plenty of research papers) - but none of the options were perfect.

[loye]

I would like to know what is the best method of storing backups.

Actually your question is really about archiving, which is a slightly different subject from backups (which are usually defined as copies of working data, and therefore are not stored long-term without being updated).

What would be the best method of keeping backups secure all the time, with no risk of loss, and also a cheap one if possible?

AFAIK, there is no current technology which fits all those requirements. Many large corporations use tape for archiving, but that still has a finite expected life, needs careful environmental conditions, is not particularly cheap etc. etc. Many public entities (e.g. national libraries) have been looking at long-term archival solutions (do some reading about archiving on Google - I did this a couple of years ago and there were plenty of research papers) - but none of the options were perfect.

Ok but for example does an usb pen drive deteriorate after some time?

that way instead of buying hdd I would buy only flash hdd pens to keep my eternal backup (archives) in there.

[Vulcan]

Ok but for example does an usb pen drive deteriorate after some time?

Yes. Read about NAND flash retention times, and the factors which affect it.

[Keatah]

As ridiculous as this may sound - I'd trust 5.25 floppies from Apple II days. There's little question that the disks will last at least 40 years. I've got piles of disks from 1979 and they are still good today. Out of 900 disks, none are bad. And they were well used to begin with prior to me putting them in a box and deciding to save them.

But is this practical for today's large amount of data? Probably not. Considering the capacity of each disk was 286K if you used both sides.

I also have HDD from the 1980's and 1990's that are still good.

But I believe the best way to "archive" something today, in the low-cost consumer space is by duplication and refreshing across multiple media. Two copies on HDD, two copies on Flash, 2 copies on Optical. And periodically checking them every 10 years.

To date, no company has really built a device for the consumer that is designed to last through the years. Instead the selling points of USB HDD boxes have been about capacity and, now, speed. But nothing has been noted or "made to stand out" about longevity.

So it's back to what I have always been doing, refreshing (and verifying) existing copies every 5 years or so. In the meantime, my 1st 10MB Hard Disk from the early 1980's continues to retain data. Not bad, eh?

[Keatah]

I would like to know what is the best method of storing backups.

What would be the best method of keeping backups secure all the time, with no risk of loss, and also a cheap one if possible?

To answer your question directly, *I* would recommend a minimum of two different HDD by two different manufacturers. For bonus points I would recommend using 2.5" disks or Enterprise-class disks. The 2.5" disks seem to be better engineered and fabricated with more precision and ruggedness out of necessity. YMMV!

Perhaps you want to shadow all this with an SLC SSD?

Until consumer electronics mfgs decide to address the issue of longevity head-on, this is the best I can suggest. Anyone else have better ideas?

[Izualim]

http://phys.org/news/2012-09-japan-hitachi.html

[Keatah]

Interesting, but how this helps the op question?

[Izualim]

maybe in ten years this technology will be avaliable for consumers.

[Keatah]

With all due respect - this sort of prediction and development has been talked about since the 1980's. I mean the huge massive jump in longevity or capacity.

And, yet, since the Apollo moon landing days, computer's speeds and disk's capacities have always come to the consumer in incremental increases.

The problem I see with this sort technology is repositioning the reading device over the crystal, so to speak. Doing it fast and reliably. If you're going to go with a device that has a head, optical or magnetic or other tech, then the best thing is to have the media spin underneath.

For accessing a square piece of "crystal glass", the best way is similar to current flash technology, with each cell going through a series of mux/demux circuits. And stack flash chips on top of each other if you want some higher density.

We're more likely to see evolutionary advances on the FLASH/SSD and HDD front at the consumer level. Currently, there is no widespread pressing need for any type of low-end consumer device to be long lived. Customers simply do not know to ask for that feature. They happily burn CD's and stack them in a drawer.

I, too, would like to see more "futuristic" storage options. We've heard all about holographic films and nano-tech and bubble memories and all that.. Yet none are mass produced for you and me. This is no different. This is a sensationalist PR publicity article, like many that have come before and will surely come later.

[Keatah]

I also have to add that while this piece of glass depicted in the article may last hundreds of years, what about the equipment needed to read it back? I have data from the paper punch-card days, that have been migrated to Apple II 5.25" disks, a 10MB Corvus and Sider hard disk, then to Commodore Amiga, then to IBM PC, and through several generations of removable tapes across 5 or 6 systems, Bernouli Boxes, Zip Disks, various forms of CD R/W (yuck!), and then finally to today's consumer level USB HDD.

The more steampunk-ish brash and brazenly primitive the hardware is, the longer lived it is. I'm talking about the Disk II drives from 1979 in this example. The ones I have will most likely continue to function for the next 100 years easy. Can you say the same thing for a laser pickup in a $19.95 CD-burner?

And you know what? All of those examples I mentioned in the first paragraph were touted as "The" technology to have at some point or other. And once the practical capacity of each medium type was reached, the doomsayers came out of the woodwork and proclaimed short life-spans. Better get the next big thing and migrate your data.

But you know, practical experience has shown otherwise. I've got 5.25" floppies that are perfectly readable and writable from 40 years ago. So far these are the longest lasting recording mediums. That and the paper punch card. Remember when everybody saying floppies would rot and fade? I have yet to observe a nicely cared for floppy fail.. I've got a 10MB HDD from the early 1980's that is also fully functional. It's as loud and crude today as it was back then!

Currently my recommendation for HDD still stands. While I have no long term data on today's high-density drives (no one does), I continue to recommend them as the choice for consumer storage solutions. And until we *HAVE* some real data on longevity, just refresh them periodically. As confidence grows and longevity is proven - the refresh intervals can get longer.

Whatever anyone does, just stay away from online cloud storage and those old-school CD R/W discs.

Happy archiving!

[Keatah]

And one more thing. I won't flood the thread anymore. I *do* have HDD from the late 1990's and early 2000's in the 27GB-120GB capacities. And they all have retained their data to date.