All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 7th, 2021, 12:47 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 15th, 2006, 3:01
Posts: 3082
Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
Hello ,
When i purchased the VNR Rusolut Kit And Standard Adapter Bundle Few Years ago i figured out that The BGA132 Adapter is not working the way it should ,I rarely get proper ID's and if i am using reread god knows it actually doing something or just rogering my NAND bits .I have this NAND IC Now

ID : 45DE949376
Wrong ID 45DC949174

Can Someone Help me figure out what pins are defective in this adapter ,Its the Second One DC instead of DE

_________________
Regards
Amarbir S Dhillon , Chandigarh Data Recovery Labs
Logical,Semi Physical And Physical Data Recovery
Website-> http://www.chandigarhdatarecovery.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 7th, 2021, 15:59 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 13501
Location: Australia
Code:
0x45DE949376 = 0b0100010111011110100101001001001101110110
0x45DC949174 = 0b0100010111011100100101001001000101110100
                               x               x       x
                 7654321076543210765432107654321076543210

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 7th, 2021, 17:13 
Offline

Joined: May 13th, 2019, 7:50
Posts: 404
Location: Nederland
Oops NVM

_________________
www.disktuna.com - photo repair service


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 7th, 2021, 23:40 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 15th, 2006, 3:01
Posts: 3082
Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
fzabkar wrote:
Code:
0x45DE949376 = 0b0100010111011110100101001001001101110110
0x45DC949174 = 0b0100010111011100100101001001000101110100
                               x               x       x
                 7654321076543210765432107654321076543210


Hi,
what i was asking is that can someone check in adapter which solder pad of socket defines DE or DC ,This can help me trace a bad soldering joint and trace the issue , i also wanted to tell you that i am reading the same very chip in PC3K Flash and ECCing and Rereading So that i can use in VNR ,This is really sad state of affairs :(

_________________
Regards
Amarbir S Dhillon , Chandigarh Data Recovery Labs
Logical,Semi Physical And Physical Data Recovery
Website-> http://www.chandigarhdatarecovery.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 7th, 2021, 23:59 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 13501
Location: Australia
Amarbir[CDR-Labs] wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
Code:
0x45DE949376 = 0b0100010111011110100101001001001101110110
0x45DC949174 = 0b0100010111011100100101001001000101110100
                               x               x       x
                 7654321076543210765432107654321076543210


Hi,
what i was asking is that can someone check in adapter which solder pad of socket defines DE or DC ,This can help me trace a bad soldering joint and trace the issue , i also wanted to tell you that i am reading the same very chip in PC3K Flash and ECCing and Rereading So that i can use in VNR ,This is really sad state of affairs :(

You are asking the wrong question. Obviously data bit #1 is stuck low.

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 8th, 2021, 1:10 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 15th, 2006, 3:01
Posts: 3082
Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
fzabkar wrote:
Amarbir[CDR-Labs] wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
Code:
0x45DE949376 = 0b0100010111011110100101001001001101110110
0x45DC949174 = 0b0100010111011100100101001001000101110100
                               x               x       x
                 7654321076543210765432107654321076543210


Hi,
what i was asking is that can someone check in adapter which solder pad of socket defines DE or DC ,This can help me trace a bad soldering joint and trace the issue , i also wanted to tell you that i am reading the same very chip in PC3K Flash and ECCing and Rereading So that i can use in VNR ,This is really sad state of affairs :(

You are asking the wrong question. Obviously data bit #1 is stuck low.


Sorry ,
Idea is to rectify the adapter if there is a soldering issue ,I had a Sandisk 20-82-00549 controller Aka Sillicon Motion SM2236 with 2 physical Chips and 4 parts each and i am having a headache reading and working with Rusolut VNR due to this defective " Intermediate Issue " BGA 132 Adapter ,I am Using PC3K Flash Parallel to this VNR tool and reading , correcting ECC and Rereading In PC3K and Then porting corrected dump to VNR .I am planning to add some solder on all the pads in the chip physically to see if that helps ,But Rusolut says thats not needed .

_________________
Regards
Amarbir S Dhillon , Chandigarh Data Recovery Labs
Logical,Semi Physical And Physical Data Recovery
Website-> http://www.chandigarhdatarecovery.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 8th, 2021, 3:41 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 13501
Location: Australia
Download the ONFI NAND spec and obtain the pinout for TSOP-48 and BGA-132 NANDs. Then locate the pin and ball that connect to DQ1. Test for continuity between the pin and ball.

http://www.onfi.org/-/media/client/onfi/specs/onfi_4_1_gold.pdf?la=en

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 8th, 2021, 6:13 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 15th, 2006, 3:01
Posts: 3082
Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
fzabkar wrote:
Download the ONFI NAND spec and obtain the pinout for TSOP-48 and BGA-132 NANDs. Then locate the pin and ball that connect to DQ1. Test for continuity between the pin and ball.

http://www.onfi.org/-/media/client/onfi/specs/onfi_4_1_gold.pdf?la=en


Thanks ,
This is Well Worth The Read ,This is there in PC3K Flash Documentation Section also ,I also happened to go to this website but never sat and read well ,Focus is on this

"Figure 14 defines the ball assignments for devices using 152-ball BGA packaging with dual 8-bit
data access. Figure 15 defines the ball assignments for devices using 132-ball BGA packaging
with dual 8-bit data access. Figure 16 defines the ball spacing requirements for the 152-ball and
132-ball BGA package. There are two package sizes: 12mm x 18mm (132-ball) and 14mm x
18mm (152-ball) and two solder ball diameter sizes: 0.45±0.05mm and 0.55±0.05mm post reflow
for both package sizes. Note: If the 12mm x 18mm package size is used, then outer columns
are not present and the package is a 132-ball BGA. For the 132-ball BGA, the columns are re-
enumerated to begin at column 1 (i.e. BGA-152 column 2 becomes BGA-132 column 1).
Depending on the data interface selected, balls may have different usages and/or meanings.
Refer to for the specific use for each ball in each data interface. "

A Interesting thing i learned was that 18x12mm is BGA132 and 18x14 is BGA152 and i always thought both have same sized balls :mrgreen: , Now i know one is 0.45mm and the other is 0.55mm .I will definitely trace this and revert back thanks a tonn 8)

PS : Size of BGA132 and BGA152 is always difference but i never knew the dimensions

_________________
Regards
Amarbir S Dhillon , Chandigarh Data Recovery Labs
Logical,Semi Physical And Physical Data Recovery
Website-> http://www.chandigarhdatarecovery.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 8th, 2021, 7:24 
Offline

Joined: May 13th, 2019, 7:50
Posts: 404
Location: Nederland
Check adapter under microscope, maybe some obvious issue you can spot, pin bent or something.

_________________
www.disktuna.com - photo repair service


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 8th, 2021, 7:40 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 15th, 2006, 3:01
Posts: 3082
Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
Arch Stanton wrote:
Check adapter under microscope, maybe some obvious issue you can spot, pin bent or something.


Surely,
Joep Sir i will ,I work on Rusolut VNR a Lot These Days and hence i want my tool adapters to work properly ,What tool are you having these days to work on chipoff cases

_________________
Regards
Amarbir S Dhillon , Chandigarh Data Recovery Labs
Logical,Semi Physical And Physical Data Recovery
Website-> http://www.chandigarhdatarecovery.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 8th, 2021, 7:47 
Offline

Joined: May 13th, 2019, 7:50
Posts: 404
Location: Nederland
Flash Extractor is what I'm using.

Still learning and experimenting though. Translation: half the time having no f*cking idea about what I am doing.

_________________
www.disktuna.com - photo repair service


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 8th, 2021, 9:06 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 15th, 2006, 3:01
Posts: 3082
Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
Arch Stanton wrote:
Flash Extractor is what I'm using.

Still learning and experimenting though. Translation: half the time having no f*cking idea about what I am doing.


Hello,
i will suggest you a website via pm ,Please keep the info to yourself ,That guy has a youtube channel also ,Its a great find i did months ago ,Flash extractor is what i am missing ,I will suggest you buy Rusolut VNR to learn about flash more ,I have really improved my knowledge on VNR

_________________
Regards
Amarbir S Dhillon , Chandigarh Data Recovery Labs
Logical,Semi Physical And Physical Data Recovery
Website-> http://www.chandigarhdatarecovery.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 8th, 2021, 9:31 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 15th, 2006, 3:01
Posts: 3082
Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
fzabkar wrote:
Download the ONFI NAND spec and obtain the pinout for TSOP-48 and BGA-132 NANDs. Then locate the pin and ball that connect to DQ1. Test for continuity between the pin and ball.

http://www.onfi.org/-/media/client/onfi/specs/onfi_4_1_gold.pdf?la=en


Hi,
i see a new ONFI spec too ver 5.0 - > https://media-www.micron.com/-/media/cl ... 1ae20b247c

_________________
Regards
Amarbir S Dhillon , Chandigarh Data Recovery Labs
Logical,Semi Physical And Physical Data Recovery
Website-> http://www.chandigarhdatarecovery.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 11th, 2021, 16:31 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 13501
Location: Australia
Maybe I should have made it a little more obvious ...

Code:
0x45DE949376 = 0b0100010111011110100101001001001101110110   expected data (hexadecimal/binary)
0x45DC949174 = 0b0100010111011100100101001001000101110100   actual bad data (hexadecimal/binary)
                               x               x       x    bit differences
                 7654321076543210765432107654321076543210   bit numbers (0 - 7)

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 12th, 2021, 3:02 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 15th, 2006, 3:01
Posts: 3082
Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
fzabkar wrote:
Maybe I should have made it a little more obvious ...

Code:
0x45DE949376 = 0b0100010111011110100101001001001101110110   expected data (hexadecimal/binary)
0x45DC949174 = 0b0100010111011100100101001001000101110100   actual bad data (hexadecimal/binary)
                               x               x       x    bit differences
                 7654321076543210765432107654321076543210   bit numbers (0 - 7)


Hi,
I did understand ,Something is seriously wrong with this adapter since day one i have never been able to use it since i purchased my VNR ,The same BGA132 even if perfectly aligned does not read in BGA152 adapter also funy ,works perfecto in Acelab BGA-152 adapter .

_________________
Regards
Amarbir S Dhillon , Chandigarh Data Recovery Labs
Logical,Semi Physical And Physical Data Recovery
Website-> http://www.chandigarhdatarecovery.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 12th, 2021, 3:28 
Offline

Joined: November 7th, 2020, 5:31
Posts: 384
Location: The_UK
Amarbir[CDR-Labs] wrote:
The same BGA132 even if perfectly aligned does not read in BGA152 adapter also funy ,works perfecto in Acelab BGA-152 adapter .
PC3K's adapter can be a real pain to align - I can't imagine VNR's is any easier. Silly question but if your VNR read is ok, and the chips read in PC3K is ok when not just return the adapter to Rusolut for a replacement or grab an off brand adapter.

I can't see an image online of a zif adapter but could you just drop some fly leads on and scope of the output of the relevant pad and connector pin?

_________________
Properly, Quickly, Cheaply - Pick any two.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 12th, 2021, 6:24 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 15th, 2006, 3:01
Posts: 3082
Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
Lardman wrote:
Amarbir[CDR-Labs] wrote:
The same BGA132 even if perfectly aligned does not read in BGA152 adapter also funy ,works perfecto in Acelab BGA-152 adapter .
PC3K's adapter can be a real pain to align - I can't imagine VNR's is any easier. Silly question but if your VNR read is ok, and the chips read in PC3K is ok when not just return the adapter to Rusolut for a replacement or grab an off brand adapter.

I can't see an image online of a zif adapter but could you just drop some fly leads on and scope of the output of the relevant pad and connector pin?



Hello,
Aligning a BGA 132 In a BGA 152 Adpter Provided By Acelab is Cake Material ,Leave Equal Space Both Side And Voila , VNR has both adapters 132 and 152

_________________
Regards
Amarbir S Dhillon , Chandigarh Data Recovery Labs
Logical,Semi Physical And Physical Data Recovery
Website-> http://www.chandigarhdatarecovery.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 12th, 2021, 11:35 
Offline

Joined: September 16th, 2015, 9:06
Posts: 159
Location: Poland
Just buy a new one from Allsocket and get to work. Good and cheap.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 12th, 2021, 15:33 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 13501
Location: Australia
AIUI, Rusolut's VNR hardware has a DIP-48 connection to the external world. I assume that the pinout would match match an ONFI standard TSOP-48 pinout. In any case you could take the TSOP-48 adapter that is supplied in the starter kit and perform a continuity test of all 48 pins.

Then I would locate the DQ1 pin and test for continuity with the BGA-132/152 DQ1 ball(s). Do the same for DQ0 and DQ2-7.

If the VNR hardware is a quality product, then it will have a self-test function. One of these tests should check the status of each pin when fed from a voltage source. This would normally be implemented with a loopback adapter or a similar test jig.

If the unit doesn't have a self test, then measure each DQ pin with a multimeter. Measure its voltage, and then test its resistance to ground (with the unit powered down, of course). Use a scope to watch the activity on DQn when reading a flash device.

Troubleshooting a stuck bit is not rocket science.

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rusolut BGA 132 Ziff Adapter Help Required
PostPosted: August 12th, 2021, 15:43 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 15th, 2006, 3:01
Posts: 3082
Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
fzabkar wrote:
AIUI, Rusolut's VNR hardware has a DIP-48 connection to the external world. I assume that the pinout would match match an ONFI standard TSOP-48 pinout. In any case you could take the TSOP-48 adapter that is supplied in the starter kit and perform a continuity test of all 48 pins.

Then I would locate the DQ1 pin and test for continuity with the BGA-132/152 DQ1 ball(s). Do the same for DQ0 and DQ2-7.

If the VNR hardware is a quality product, then it will have a self-test function. One of these tests should check the status of each pin when fed from a voltage source. This would normally be implemented with a loopback adapter or a similar test jig.

If the unit doesn't have a self test, then measure each DQ pin with a multimeter. Measure its voltage, and then test its resistance to ground (with the unit powered down, of course). Use a scope to watch the activity on DQn when reading a flash device.

Troubleshooting a stuck bit is not rocket science.


OK ,
So if you press with your finger in the socket it works you leave the pressure it stops ,I had this issue with it since day one all older tech support staff knows this , Anyhow today a Tech support engineer tells me adapters have 1 month warranty well i have this issue from day one ,I think i am also heading towards the experience jared palmer had but i hope i am a wrong i do a lot of contribution to rusolut ,Anyhow so there are few possible solutions

1 : Put a sheet of plastic of metal on the chip so that when socket closes pressure is there and my adapter works

2 : I add some solder or balls to the chip to increase its height and hence add to the pressure excreted on it

3 : Design my own adapter PCB import sockets from china Make adapters are sell it to all those who are suffering from BAD quality of this "I have not even used this damn thing for one case " .If i do this i am going to make such a PCB that will have the Socket + Pins for Attaching Logic Analyser to the Same also ,Nice to See Some Waveforms And i Hope i buy a Decent LA i have that Hantek material and never used its time i take it out and use it or throw it down the dusbin and invest money in something better , Peeps will say why LA points in BGA 132 when pinout is there , thats to analyse some ID and Its Waveforms

_________________
Regards
Amarbir S Dhillon , Chandigarh Data Recovery Labs
Logical,Semi Physical And Physical Data Recovery
Website-> http://www.chandigarhdatarecovery.com


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group