Confused about Firmware/Service Area

[lostinspace]

A newbie question this really but here goes. I’ve got a WD1600BEVE-11UYT0 drive that is not recognised in the bios. I get a space where the drive is plugged in, so the bios recognises the presence of something but it has no way of deciphering what that is. I see no drive serial numbers or anything, just a blank space where the info should be.
In master mode the drive spins up and clicks quietly, does a few retires and then shuts down. Oddly as a slave drive it will settle and keep spinning but again there is no data displayed in the bios.

This isn’t my main drive by the way so I tried booting Windows XP from the good drive while attaching the bad drive as a master device on the secondary IDE channel. XP crashes with the 07f blue screen when I do this although it is ok when set to slave.

Trouble is I wanted to use A-FF repair station to check the drive and this only works with the drive set to master.
In short then what do I do? I’m looking for donor drives (a request is on this forum) but having no luck. What confuses me is the service area. Assuming that the drive is mechanically sound and I change the PCB that won’t fix the SA right? So how do I re-write the SA? Only I am getting mixed messages from the searches I have done. Some say you can and some say not.

I am asking this now as I don't want to replace the PCB only to find that the SA is screwed.

Sorry about the long post!

[wiseleo]

A-FF should work when that drive is connected to the secondary IDE channel as master instead of your CD-Rom/DVD-Rom or whatever other optical drive you have.

However, if it fails to see it, you will need to see someone with the right tools. I have a similar drive in my queue with similar symptoms. In my case, A-FF does not see it, but you may be luckier.

Let's see what others will say.

[BlackST]

SA is INSIDE the drive, some part of the software that makes the drive work is in the PCB. Changing the PCB wont' fix the SA. To access the SA you need expensive specialised HW tools and a lot of knowledge (no one-click or homegrown solutions, sorry).

The symptom spin up - clicks - spin down is mostly related to head problems. You have a small chance that the PCB could be the culprit, but you have to find an exact donor , maybe swap the ROM chip (it's SMD soldered) and try. If you're lucky, you get the data, otherwise the drive has to be serviced.
Could either be the ROM, but again you need specialised HW tools to diagnose / repair. Use the SEARCH function in this forum.

Maybe, could just be a cabling problem. Try to power only the drive, don't connect the data cable. If it clicks and spin down, the drive is dead. The drive, either master, slave or CS must stay ON . A faulty WD acts like yours.

As you noted, you found a lot of contraddictive information on the net. Say it loud.

If it's the head, you need to replace it and it's very difficult to make things work without making damage. Maybe you'll find some video, or some post here and there that claim it's so easy. The data is yours, you decide. If the data is not important and want to give a try, do it. Your chances are very small and don't expect to get trained or have the problem remotely solved, you have to do it on your own.

If data is important, ask a pro to diagnose and/or fix. If not, use the drive as paperweight or use it for experiments.

[lostinspace]

I managed to get windows to boot after disabling auto device detection for IDE channel 2. This enabled me to run A-FF repair station. Unfortunately it could not recognise the hard drive family. I have sent them an email about this.
In the meantime here are some logs people on here may be able to make sense of. All utilities were downloaded from http://nazyura.hardw.net/000006.htm

Attachments

WDFLASH.LOG

(444 Bytes) Downloaded 1008 times

WDMOD.LOG

(19.86 KiB) Downloaded 959 times

[BlackST]

These progs are supposed to be used on working drives. If the drive doesn't start normally, unless "jumpstarted" in other way, it is impossible to perform operation(s) on the SA or ROM. I know that hope is the last thing supposed to die...

[lostinspace]

These progs are supposed to be used on working drives. If the drive doesn't start normally, unless "jumpstarted" in other way, it is impossible to perform operation(s) on the SA or ROM. I know that hope is the last thing supposed to die...

Impossible is a word I have never understood

I'll make the bloody thing read if its the last thing I do............

[wiseleo]

If A-FF fails to read that drive's family, your problem just got a lot more expensive.

Sorry, but you will likely need to send it to someone who has firmware repair experience and the necessary equipment. You will need access to specialized hardware at this point. The suite starts at about $2000.

[lostinspace]

And would suite would that be?

[BlackST]

What if it's a head problem? Loose $ 2k or more... :S

[wiseleo]

The HD Doctor Suite from Salvation Data could be one possible solution. I am sure that Laura will chime in on this sooner or later. Then there are other even more expensive solutions.

Bear in mind that something else might be wrong, such as you may determine that you need new heads. This drive has 4 heads and 2 platters. That's another piece of equipment, plus the costs of donor drives, plus access to a clean air area. Oh, and if you've never done head transfers before, add to that some training time on dummy drives and purchasing those dummy drives and yet more specialized equipment.

How much is your time worth?

Although, if you did buy this product, you'd likely be able to properly diagnose the drive. The problem is that if you wanted to resell it after you are done, you'd find that the market of buyers is very limited. Let's say that you invested in all these tools and that you were ultimately successful, do you want to become a DR specialist?

While the field is lucrative, good luck with global competition.

[lostinspace]

I was hoping you would say that. Like most people I have been looking at Data Compass as it happens. I have emailed Laura who is going to send me some info. I think that the WD Doctor might be worth a look though as a way of keeping the costs down. That is unless the full HD Doctor suite has some added capabilities that I am unaware of.

Thanks for the help everyone. You’re probably all wondering why I just don't send the drive away. Well a friend of mine sent off a WD200EB? and never did get it back. Once bitten twice shy and all that.

[hddguy]

Well a friend of mine sent off a WD200EB? and never did get it back. Once bitten twice shy and all that.

There seem to be a lot of so called 'DR Experts' who actually only have limited experience, skill and technical knowledge. I know this because I often recieve work previously sent to the cheaper alternative, and recieve the HDD in a much worsened state!!

You really should consider sending your HDD off, just make sure it is sent to a reputable company who have many years experience behind them.

[bitor]

Greetings to all:

I have a few question concerning this topic and I hope a guru can answer them.
1.) When does the firmware service area on a hard drive being accessed? i.e. at boot up, wake up from sleep mode,etc..
2.) When is the firmware service area NOT accessed ?
3.) When did the mfgs start implementing this technology?
4.) Are there any drives sold today that have firmware service area just burned in a chip and NOT on the hard drive?
5.) What causes firmware service area on hard drives to go bad?
i.e. bad shutdown,too many reboots,etc...
6.) What is the space in MB or kb that this firmware service area takes up on a hard drive?
7.) Where is the location of theses firmware service area on a hard drive?
Thanks again for all your help in advance,
Happy Holidays,
bitor

[Doomer]

4 - there is no modern HDDs with SA only inside a chip, becasue all HDDs have SMART technology and drive should update SMART parameters frequently which is possible only if SMART modules and tables located on platters
5 - Usually problems with hardware, sometimes because of code bugs in SA
6- from tens of KBs to hundreds of MBs (it depends of drive model)

PS: you probably need to re-phrase questions 1-3 and 7

[bitor]

Hi Doomer:

Thank you once again for answering part of my questions. I'd like others(if possible) to chime in on my question as well. I hope they do.

Thanks again, Doomer,
bitor

Concerning your reply about my question #4, does this imply that hard drives without SMART technology(older hard drives) would have the SA in a chip on the PCB board?

4 - there is no modern HDDs with SA only inside a chip, becasue all HDDs have SMART technology and drive should update SMART parameters frequently which is possible only if SMART modules and tables located on platters
5 - Usually problems with hardware, sometimes because of code bugs in SA
6- from tens of KBs to hundreds of MBs (it depends of drive model)

PS: you probably need to re-phrase questions 1-3 and 7

[BlackST]

BITOR, some part or the most important part should be on the chip, but UNIQUE details like adaptives, error lists and so on are recorded on the platters.
I.E. some old drives have all the same PCB. No "unique" data on the PCB, a dead one should be replaced with another. But nowadays times are changed.
If you are thinking about reviving a dead MODERN HD like a cell phone or DVD player, you're totally off-track. What do you want to do ?

[Doomer]

Concerning your reply about my question #4, does this imply that hard drives without SMART technology(older hard drives) would have the SA in a chip on the PCB board?

Some very-very old drives (5-20 megabyte drives) didn't have SA on platters as far as I know

[BlackST]

Yes Doomer that's what I pointed out. No overlays or code, only adaptives, config and err list. Plus SS...

[bitor]

Hello and thank you all once again for answering part of my original question. It would be nice if someone/others etc. could answer the other parts of my question. I hope you can.

As far as what am I trying to do... In the most respectful and non disrespectful way to everybody, I'm not trying to swap any PCB or anything else. Unless I have an epiphany, I'm just trying to understand this area for my own personal knowledge. It really is that simple. I hope I did not offend anybody here. That is not my intent.

Thank you all once again in advance for your generous help concerning this matter.

With best regards,
bitor



Original questions
"I have a few question concerning this topic and I hope a guru can answer them.
1.) When does the firmware service area on a hard drive being accessed? i.e. at boot up, wake up from sleep mode,etc..
2.) When is the firmware service area NOT accessed ?
3.) When did the mfgs start implementing this technology?
4.) Are there any drives sold today that have firmware service area just burned in a chip and NOT on the hard drive?
5.) What causes firmware service area on hard drives to go bad?
i.e. bad shutdown,too many reboots,etc...
6.) What is the space in MB or kb that this firmware service area takes up on a hard drive?
7.) Where is the location of theses firmware service area on a hard drive?
Thanks again for all your help in advance,
Happy Holidays,
bitor"

[bitor]

moved to root of "Hard Disk Drives: data recovery and repair"

direct link below
firmware-service-area-questions-t10747.html

Thanks,
bitor