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 Post subject: Logitech HD dead after not plugging via inverter/transformer
PostPosted: April 24th, 2011, 9:46 
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Joined: April 24th, 2011, 9:29
Posts: 13
Location: Sydney
I didnt put the plug into inverter, so now my external hard drive doesnt work. There was no noise, smoke or anything other than it would not crank up. And when I realised what I forgot to do....I could have kicked myself. I am sure I am not the first or last to post something like this, but what I would like to know is what is the most likely damage and is it possible to repair myself or seek a service out here in Australia to do it. It is a Japanese Logitech with the same voltage requirements as the USA. I am wondering if I have fried the adapter, ruined something internally as well as damaged the hard drive itself. Are there ways to determine what is damaged? I emailed earlier on tonight a data recovery place and the technician wrote that I may have damaged the PCB from the power surge and that it would cost $495 to retrieve the data plus 2 weeks to do it. No idea what a PCB is, but am thinking it is something internal. ANY HELP OR ADVICE WOULD HELP as I have lots of sentimental stuff on it that I would like to salvage without it costing an arm and a leg...


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 Post subject: Re: Logitech HD dead after not plugging via inverter/transformer
PostPosted: April 24th, 2011, 12:37 
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Joined: September 2nd, 2008, 12:14
Posts: 447
Location: Austria / Europe
1st: Please dont write in big + bold letters - no need for that.

2nd:
Sorry, what do you mean with ...: "I didnt put the plug into inverter"

Could you please specify what kind of external hard disk this is and
furthermore whether you connected the power adapter to the drive

or - whether you maybe took a false one from a laptop ....

Laptop power adapters often have the same type (looking) connectors
- but 19 Volts - and those for external hard drives need only 12 Volts.

When using the wrong power adapter (with 19 Volts) the USB electronic
of the external box and often the PCB of the hard disk are both defect.

After a complete answer one can revert with more suggestions.

+++
p.s. "Inverter" is the name for an electronic part within a flat monitor.


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 Post subject: Re: Logitech HD dead after not plugging via inverter/transformer
PostPosted: April 24th, 2011, 15:14 
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Joined: January 8th, 2008, 5:21
Posts: 927
Location: uk
Hi,
Reading between the lines I am guessing you mean a step down transformer rather than an inverter?

So you plugged your 110vac power supply into the main 240vac socket instead of the transformer? Is that it?
If that is the case you have probably only damaged the power supply and usually the drive itself will remain undamaged, though the usb to sata bridge pcb might have been damaged as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Logitech HD dead after not plugging via inverter/transformer
PostPosted: April 25th, 2011, 1:11 
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Joined: April 24th, 2011, 9:29
Posts: 13
Location: Sydney
falther wrote:
1st: Please dont write in big + bold letters - no need for that.
Quote:


Sorry about the big and the bold letters...

2nd:
Quote:
Sorry, what do you mean with ...: "I didnt put the plug into inverter"
Quote:


The step up or step down transformer...I have one that does both and one that steps down...thought it was also called an inverter.

Quote:
Could you please specify what kind of external hard disk this is and
furthermore whether you connected the power adapter to the drive

or - whether you maybe took a false one from a laptop ....

Laptop power adapters often have the same type (looking) connectors
- but 19 Volts - and those for external hard drives need only 12 Volts.

When using the wrong power adapter (with 19 Volts) the USB electronic
of the external box and often the PCB of the hard disk are both defect.
Quote:


It is a 250 Gb Logitech External Hard drive usb/ power adapter that I got in Japan for putting data and movies on...around 4 to 5 years ago.
I had the correct power adapter and yes it was hooked up from the australian plug converter to logitec hard drive through the adapter and usb cable to PC from the hard drive, but wasnt put through the step up or step down transformer which should have been put into the converter itself.....my mistake. There was no noise, smoke or even a flicker of light. The power supply would have been 240 volts.

After a complete answer one can revert with more suggestions.

+++
p.s. "Inverter" is the name for an electronic part within a flat monitor.
[quote]


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 Post subject: Re: Logitech HD dead after not plugging via inverter/transformer
PostPosted: April 25th, 2011, 1:23 
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Joined: April 24th, 2011, 9:29
Posts: 13
Location: Sydney
dick wrote:
Hi,
Reading between the lines I am guessing you mean a step down transformer rather than an inverter?

So you plugged your 110vac power supply into the main 240vac socket instead of the transformer? Is that it?

Quote:
Yes...100% correct. And I could really kick myself. I actually did it to 2 external hard drives...one never used and the other one had lots of photos and movies on it. Dont care about the unused one as I can get a new one relatively cheap nowadays....but would like to salvage the data on the other one if possible.
Quote:


If that is the case you have probably only damaged the power supply and usually the drive itself will remain undamaged, though the usb to sata bridge pcb might have been damaged as well.


Quote:
Is it possible that just the diodes, (have been reading this site like crazy), might be damaged rather than PCB.

Noticed just now that the Logitech adapter has this SWITCHING POWER SUPPLY box half way along it whereas the other hard drive (Buffalo) doesnt have it at all and is actually attached to the hard drive from the back. And I did see the light go on on that one before it died.
Quote:


Would it be safe to assume that I have fried the adapter cords and usb cables too?


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 Post subject: Re: Logitech HD dead after not plugging via inverter/transformer
PostPosted: April 25th, 2011, 1:52 
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Joined: April 24th, 2011, 9:29
Posts: 13
Location: Sydney
New to this forum and was trying to do "quote and unquote"....didnt quite go the way I wanted it to so apologise in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: Logitech HD dead after not plugging via inverter/transformer
PostPosted: April 25th, 2011, 2:26 
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Joined: April 24th, 2011, 9:29
Posts: 13
Location: Sydney
dick wrote:
Hi,
Reading between the lines I am guessing you mean a step down transformer rather than an inverter?

So you plugged your 110vac power supply into the main 240vac socket instead of the transformer? Is that it?
If that is the case you have probably only damaged the power supply and usually the drive itself will remain undamaged, though the usb to sata bridge pcb might have been damaged as well.


Answered this before, but still hasnt shown, so in case this doubles up....you know why. Also, I think I have the hang of quote/unquote now...

Yes...plugged 110 vac power supply to 240 vac socket. In fact, 2 external hard drives, but one was just an unused one with no data on it, easy enough to replace nowadays. I did, however, notice that the LOGITECH one had this POWER SUPPLY SWITCH BOX thing half way along it whereas the Buffalo one just has the cord coming directly from the back with no box thing on it. I saw the BUFFALO one light up, but not the LOGITECH one.

So, is it possible with the Logitech one that the damage is just with the cord and usb cable and possibly the diodes rather than the PCB? Been reading alot on this website as much as I can that is related to my situation.

Now, if the drive is fine, is it easy enough to transfer that to another external hard drive enclosure of a different type or does it have to be the exact same one....as in Logitech? Is there such thing as a universal hard drive enclosure? Not sure if I can get the adapters or logitech enclosures here in Australia as I bought this when living in Japan about 4 to 5 years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Logitech HD dead after not plugging via inverter/transformer
PostPosted: April 25th, 2011, 6:20 
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Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 16960
Location: Australia
It appears that you have plugged a 110VAC Japanese power adapter with a Japanese plug into a 240VAC power socket using a plug converter, ie without going through a 240V/110V stepdown transformer. If so, then your adapter will have been damaged, but your drive and enclosure should be OK. Switchmode power adapters will usually restrict the damage to the AC side. Just find a 240VAC switchmode AC adapter with an output that matches your original. If you upload a photo of the rating label, we will be able to confirm the power requirements, usually 12VDC, 2A. You should then be able to buy a replacement from Dick Smith or Jaycar or WES Components (Wagner Electronics).

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.


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 Post subject: Re: Logitech HD dead after not plugging via inverter/transformer
PostPosted: April 25th, 2011, 6:39 
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Joined: September 2nd, 2008, 12:14
Posts: 447
Location: Austria / Europe
Bet fzabkar is right, you most probably burnt your USB electronic
- and I am sure you burnt the TVS of your hdd pcb too.

To test that is realy simple:
Open the enclosure - it contains a standard hdd plus the usb electronic.
Some of these enclosures are screwed - and sometimes the screws are
hidden by a sticker or the rubber feet.
And some enclosures are just 2 plastic parts locked when put together.

Any way - you have to open it and dont care about destroying the
enclosure and the electronic of it - you need to get the hard disk out.
But be carefull not to damage the hdd itself !

Once you have the disk out of the enclosure - check whether its an
IDE or a SATA drive. On an IDE drive check for the correct jumper
setting - put it into "master" mode. Explanation is usually on the top
of the drive for the apropriate jumper setting.

On a SATA drive you dont have to care about that.

Next step: You either can connect the drive as second drive onto/into
your PC system - or you can get a USB to SATA+IDE converter and try
to connect it externally through USB.

This adapter/converter is infact the same electronic as was in your
enclosure - but without the box for the drive. It comes with a power
supply for the drive and the adapter.

Instead of this adapter you could buy a new USB to SATA or IDE
enclosure (without a drive in it) - to put either your drive into it
if its still ok, or a new drive..... and you dont need extra money
for the adapter ....

Connect drive and power and turn it on, then connect it to pc. If it
works correctly, you should see information about a new hardware,
a new drive - and have access to your data.

If this does not work - then your hard disk electronic most probably
got a problem too. But first go on with this procedure.

+++


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 Post subject: Re: Logitech HD dead after not plugging via inverter/transformer
PostPosted: April 25th, 2011, 7:21 
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Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 16960
Location: Australia
I wouldn't open the drive just yet.

Instead, go to DSE/Jaycar/WES and buy the 12V adapter. It will be supplied with a set of detachable DC plugs. Insert the appropriate plug into the DC socket on your drive, and ask the storeperson to measure the resistance between the pins of the plug, using the diode range of a digital multimeter. This should tell you whether the drive's 12V TVS diode is OK.

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.


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 Post subject: Re: Logitech HD dead after not plugging via inverter/transformer
PostPosted: April 25th, 2011, 9:33 
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Joined: April 24th, 2011, 9:29
Posts: 13
Location: Sydney
falther wrote:
Bet fzabkar is right, you most probably burnt your USB electronic
- and I am sure you burnt the TVS of your hdd pcb too.

Advice how to test...

If this does not work - then your hard disk electronic most probably
got a problem too. But first go on with this procedure.

+++


Thanks will keep this in mind if it is more than the adapter being destroyed. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Logitech HD dead after not plugging via inverter/transformer
PostPosted: April 25th, 2011, 9:46 
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Joined: April 24th, 2011, 9:29
Posts: 13
Location: Sydney
fzabkar wrote:
It appears that you have plugged a 110VAC Japanese power adapter with a Japanese plug into a 240VAC power socket using a plug converter, ie without going through a 240V/110V stepdown transformer. If so, then your adapter will have been damaged, but your drive and enclosure should be OK. Switchmode power adapters will usually restrict the damage to the AC side. Just find a 240VAC switchmode AC adapter with an output that matches your original. If you upload a photo of the rating label, we will be able to confirm the power requirements, usually 12VDC, 2A. You should then be able to buy a replacement from Dick Smith or Jaycar or WES Components (Wagner Electronics).



To be honest...I fried 2 external hard drives yesteday...but it is just the LOGITECH one that had lots of data the other one was unused.

Of the 2, Logitech was the only one that had a SWTCHING MODE POWER SUPPLY adapter.

On the plug itself is written: Logitec LA 24WCS Input: 100V - 50/60 Hz 70VA Output:12V 2.0A 24VA Output power: 24W max

I might be wrong, but would I not need a 100VAC switchmode AC adapter? If so, can I get that here in Australia at a place like Dick Smith or Jaycar?

Will get them to test it like you said after Easter is over.....

Thanks for giving me some hope that the hard drive itself might still be okay..... :D


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 Post subject: Re: Logitech HD dead after not plugging via inverter/transformer
PostPosted: April 25th, 2011, 9:57 
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Joined: April 24th, 2011, 9:29
Posts: 13
Location: Sydney
Have responded to Dick and Fzabkar, but the responses have yet to be approved by Moderators.

Thanks everyone for all your help really appreciated!. Just in case it takes a long time for the moderators to approve...as the one I wrote to Dick was done well over 10 hours ago...thought I'd give the following details.

My LOGITECH had SWITCHING MODE POWER SUPPLY and on it is written:

Logitec LA 21WCS
Input:100V 50/60Hz 70VA
Output:12V 2.0A 24VA
Output Power:24W max

Now, Fzabkar, you said to get a 240V one....is that right? Am just wondering if it should still be USA/Japan voltage rather than Australia. After Easter, will go to Dick Smith or Jaycar to get a new adapter and to see if they can test what you stated.

I really hope it is just the adapter and usb cable that needs replacing....have decided that if I am able to access what is inside the Logitech....am so putting it onto an Australian hard drive and putting it to rest.


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 Post subject: Re: Logitech HD dead after not plugging via inverter/transformer
PostPosted: April 25th, 2011, 17:23 
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Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 16960
Location: Australia
If you find a 240VAC adapter with a 12V 2.0A (or more) DC output, then that will be perfect. Just be absolutely sure that the polarity is correct. On the existing label there should be a legend that indicates whether the centre pin (or tip) of the plug is positive or negative. The adapter that you buy will most probably be a universal type with a set of reversible DC plugs. Make sure that the plug is configured with the same polarity.

BTW, your original setup actually had two transformers -- an external 240V/110V stepdown transformer plus an internal switchmode 110V - 12V transformer (in simple terms). You will now be replacing that setup with a single 240V - 12V switchmode transformer. The end result will be the same. In fact you will probably find that your replacement adapter will be an international type, ie it will accept AC voltages in the range of 90VAC - 250VAC.

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.


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 Post subject: Re: Logitech HD dead after not plugging via inverter/transformer
PostPosted: April 25th, 2011, 20:14 
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Joined: April 24th, 2011, 9:29
Posts: 13
Location: Sydney
fzabkar wrote:
If you find a 240VAC adapter with a 12V 2.0A (or more) DC output, then that will be perfect. Just be absolutely sure that the polarity is correct. On the existing label there should be a legend that indicates whether the centre pin (or tip) of the plug is positive or negative. The adapter that you buy will most probably be a universal type with a set of reversible DC plugs. Make sure that the plug is configured with the same polarity.

BTW, your original setup actually had two transformers -- an external 240V/110V stepdown transformer plus an internal switchmode 110V - 12V transformer (in simple terms). You will now be replacing that setup with a single 240V - 12V switchmode transformer. The end result will be the same. In fact you will probably find that your replacement adapter will be an international type, ie it will accept AC voltages in the range of 90VAC - 250VAC.


Thanks soooo much for all your help. Will write this down and take it into JayCar and/or Dick Smith with my Logitech plus cords etc to show them the adapter and hard drive...after Easter. Will also get them to test it like you said to in a prior post.


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