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 Post subject: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 6th, 2013, 5:35 
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Joined: July 6th, 2013, 5:09
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Location: Kuwait
i need to recover my data by swapping the failed PCB board of my TOSHIBA MK2035GSS, I have managed to get an identical working pcb, however a simple swapping didn't work, i read somewhere that the firmware info are imbedded somehow that cannot be simply swapped,
my question is:
if i swapped the main controller (HAVING THE CODE 2Y64S40CTP ON IT) from the original pcb to the new one, would it work? is there any tips? i can take it to any electronic repair workshops, they have special machines to remove circuit board and solder new ones, please someone help me in this, i dont want to risk damaging the working pcb or permanently destroy the original pcb for nothing, attached the photo for the pcb


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 Post subject: Re: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 6th, 2013, 5:54 
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cool_aries75 wrote:
if i swapped the main controller (HAVING THE CODE 2Y64S40CTP ON IT)

That the Ram memory, you need to move the other one with a big M on it...Marvell cpu.
Or try to repair the original board.

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 Post subject: Re: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 6th, 2013, 6:07 
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Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
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Check fuse F1 near the SATA power connector.

Also check diode D1.

If you are lucky, a repair might cost you nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 6th, 2013, 7:10 
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Joined: August 18th, 2010, 17:35
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Location: Massachusetts, USA
Given the data is important...

Best suggestion I can give is to find a way to fix the PCB, ideally someone highly competent to do so.
There is a high risk of losing data if the PCB gets damaged as the "M" chip is sort of difficult to swap. All of the adaptive data for this particular drive is in that chip, so damaging it = no recovery.

Think twice before doing anything and if not sure, always practice or have the individual doing the work practice.

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 Post subject: Re: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 6th, 2013, 8:25 
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Joined: July 21st, 2010, 5:03
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Location: Norfolk, UK
F1 is pretty burnt, and one of the legs on D1 is discoloured.... you may be lucky and this will be simple fix (unless they've got this way after a failed attempt at a repair)....But if you have any doubts in your ability to diagnose and fix these, then seek a pro who can do it for you.....

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 Post subject: Re: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 6th, 2013, 17:41 
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Joined: July 18th, 2006, 3:05
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Location: ITALY
Clarification + advice :

1) if the fuse is blown it was for a good reason. See 2).

2) NEVER short the fuse. If there is additional damage and you kill the MCU, what could be a "relatively simple" recovery with realtively low price, it will become instantly (with a puff of magic smoke) a 1000's job aka "kiss your data goodbye".

3) It is very unlike that a straight PCB replacement will give access to data , also there is a chance that you can add some more problems.
Just in case....

4) Rework of this kind of PCBs require IR tools and other materials, and also skilled personnel, especially dealing with BGA packages.

Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 7th, 2013, 8:29 
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Joined: July 6th, 2013, 5:09
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Location: Kuwait
thank you guys, i really appreciate your help,

the damage happened when i plugged the drive into an enclosure used for 3.5 hdd, it seems it received a 12 volts instead of 5 volts, i have spoiled 2 hard drive actually (akhhh stupid me)

Someone tried to repairs it, he told me when he bypassed the diod (or the fuse) an ic got heat, therefore he didn't continue, now i dont know how to proceed, data is there and cant touch!


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 Post subject: Re: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 7th, 2013, 9:36 
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Joined: July 18th, 2006, 3:05
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Location: ITALY
cool_aries75 wrote:
thank you guys, i really appreciate your help,

the damage happened when i plugged the drive into an enclosure used for 3.5 hdd, it seems it received a 12 volts instead of 5 volts, i have spoiled 2 hard drive actually (akhhh stupid me)

Someone tried to repairs it, he told me when he bypassed the diod (or the fuse) an ic got heat, therefore he didn't continue, now i dont know how to proceed, data is there and cant touch!

Bingo... !
All that shouldn't happen, happened.
It is still possible to get back data (at this point being cautious about the outcome) but generally speaking if there was a range (cost) I think if the pcb is destroyed the cost is now 2 to 5x...


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 Post subject: Re: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 7th, 2013, 15:46 
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Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
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That's bad luck. :-(

As a DIY-er you did all you could. Unfortunately the diode did not succeed in limiting the damage to itself. You can take heart in the fact that the damage to the IC occurred during the overvoltage -- it was not a consequence of your repair attempt.

Which chip is overheating? Is it the motor controller? Marvell MCU? I suspect the former.

Do you have a multimeter? If so, we can measure the resistances on the Vio and Vcore supplies. That may tell us where the damage occurred.

As for shorting the fuse, that's all that a DIY-er could reasonably be expected to do. If you had indulged me, I would have helped you to locate the short circuited IC before you powered on the board. But that would have changed nothing. In any case you are now no worse off than prior to your DIY repair attempt. Believe me, I have many years of chip-level troubleshooting experience in microprocessor based boards in mainframe computer systems where the data was valued in millions of dollars. Don't beat yourself up about it.

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 Post subject: Re: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 7th, 2013, 17:46 
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Joined: July 18th, 2006, 3:05
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Quote:
That's bad luck. :-(


Not exactly.

Quote:
Which chip is overheating? Is it the motor controller? Marvell MCU? I suspect the former.
Do you have a multimeter? If so, we can measure the resistances on the Vio and Vcore supplies. That may tell us where the damage occurred.


Assuming the motor controller is overheating , 60-80% the MCU has been already toasted.
It is not available on normal market and impossible to replace without dedicated IR equipment.
If MCU is killed, it is even worse.

Quote:
As for shorting the fuse, that's all that a DIY-er could reasonably be expected to do.


Common sense suggests checking the reason for a blown fuse , or - at maximum - replacement with same rate and type of fuse. Unfortunately that's exactly how high level techies make the real good money : from otherwise avoidable added damage (this happens from low cost HDDs to high end equipment or even industrial stuff).


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 Post subject: Re: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 7th, 2013, 18:33 
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I wouldn't bridge a fuse, but then I'm an experienced engineer and technician. That said, replacing an smt fuse is not feasible for most DIY-ers, let alone replacing a motor controller or MCU. In any case, if the fuse blew for any reason other than the diode, then the damage has already been done and a replacement fuse will make no difference to the outcome. That's because a fuse is a thermal device and is relatively slow to react. If a DIY-er is not prepared to hand over $1000 for professional recovery, then they really have only one option.

As for the failure mode, when the drive sustains an overvoltage, the motor controller takes the full force of it. It is the motor controller's job to reduce the +5V supply to +1.2V and +3.3V for the MCU, SDRAM, preamp (?), and flash memory, if present. It does this via PWM pulses. If the PWM control circuitry fails in such a way that the switchmode power supply is always off, then the other chips will survive unscathed. Otherwise, if the PWM controller fails in always-on mode, then the MCU's core will receive the full +5V supply and will die instantly. It's even worse at 12V.

AISI, the OP did not exacerbate the damage. It was purely a case of bad luck.

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 Post subject: Re: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 8th, 2013, 7:41 
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fzabkar wrote:
I wouldn't bridge a fuse, but then I'm an experienced engineer and technician. That said, replacing an smt fuse is not feasible for most DIY-ers, let alone replacing a motor controller or MCU.


Maybe not this time, but if someone has quickly read some posts on this site, there is first the exact suggestion to bridge it with a wire link or flow a blob of solder over it , THEN there is a warning (maybe later) about no protection OR to replace/add a "picofuse".

viewtopic.php?t=14498&f=1&start=0#p94532
(Toshiba 4025GAS case)
viewtopic.php?t=18187&f=1&start=0#p121898
viewtopic.php?t=19547&f=1&start=0#p131477

Same for zero ohm resistors often used as "fuse" on other drives : here is one but there are more.

viewtopic.php?t=17853&f=1&start=0#p119812

If you are not in safe condition, i.e. professional power supply with tracking and programmable current protection or similar equipment, YOU SHOULD NOT override any safety device or the consequences can be very unpleasant (and it's not always Sunday!) - protection devices are fitted for a reason and they trip mostly for a reason even if sometimes they just fail (in positive or negative).

Hope people will understand what they are reading and , most important, doing.


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 Post subject: Re: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 8th, 2013, 8:22 
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Joined: July 18th, 2006, 3:05
Posts: 7476
Location: ITALY
In a nutshell :

1) It's clear that is always a bad idea to "try luck" with PCBs overriding fuses and / or protection devices , especially....
2) ... on recent devices where everything is stored in the MCU and there is no possibility of "simple" adaptation of PCB by transferring an external memory.
THIS APPLIES ESPECIALLY TO FUJITSU AND TOSHIBA but there are many other.
3) in case there is need to extract data from died PCB but working MCU, in lab it is always possible , at home only 1 out 100'000 (chances of successfully moving such BGA with homebrew methods are less than zero).
4) even zero ohm resistors are not all the same : each type/mfg. has its own characteristics and act like a precise fuse (to me it is an improper use, but if it happens to use them there is at least an economical reason to do it) while a wire-wrap thin wire or even a copper strand from common wire can withstand a much higher current than a fuse before breaking. Don't believe it ? try with a power supply with programmable current and see on a similar length of wire how much current flows before it "blows" and how much time it takes before breaking the circuit (seconds...).
5) last but not least : it is almost impossible to solder nanofuses with common soldering iron, even the normal lab one - without damaging them (they open or they stick on the tip and in seconds they burn up). If you want to do it with pen iron, have to be quick and precise AND need the appropriate chemicals + alloy , IR soldering instead is perfectly safe and effective. Don't forget the PCBs are Pb free !
(it is pointless to say that you'll never accomodate another kind of fuse easily on the PCB from component side :mrgreen:)


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 Post subject: Re: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 9th, 2013, 12:27 
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Joined: July 6th, 2013, 5:09
Posts: 3
Location: Kuwait
thank you guys for your time, i see you took good time analyzing my case,
now how can i trust a professional crisis recovery company? there are many out here, if anyone suggest a quality company with of course affordable fee?

if you think there is still chance to get back the data....


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 Post subject: Re: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 9th, 2013, 12:43 
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Joined: July 18th, 2006, 3:05
Posts: 7476
Location: ITALY
The first that comes to mind to me is "einstein9" from this forum.

Hope you'll get your data back, best of luck !


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 Post subject: Re: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 9th, 2013, 13:20 
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Joined: July 2nd, 2011, 14:16
Posts: 463
Location: England
The repair might be okay at a data recovery, all the chips look fine and other components, I think the overcurrent buggered all the safety circuits and there are some missing too. Hopefully it will not cost that much, but you will need a DR company to look at the board and replace some of the components. Looking at the pic it looks like F1 IS Completely buggered, the component next to it looked like its fried too, the one above it dead too and F2 is missing C4 and W10 all missing too. I don't know if something should be in FL4 slot too.

I would not trust C1 and C3, and that component at D1 looks questionable.

I believe some fuses lower the current a little too, when I bypassed such a fuse a regulator would get uncomferlby hot when it did not before. I just attached a little bit of metal to the top and made it transfer the heat to the main drive frame, worked okay for a few years.


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 Post subject: Re: PCB SWAPPING FOR TOSHIBA MK2035GSS
PostPosted: July 9th, 2013, 13:53 
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Joined: May 6th, 2008, 22:53
Posts: 2138
Location: England
ShaneWard wrote:
F2 is missing C4 and W10 all missing too.

FYI no, those components are not "missing" (as in "needing to be fitted") - they are deliberately not populated. A new drive of the same type will also not have those components fitted.


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