I'm shopping for a Hard Drive and noticed on the specifications that one of the drives claims it has "2 million hours" of MTBF, and so I take 2,000,000 divided by 24 hours equals 83,333 days divided by 365 days (in a year) equals 228.3 years, and yeah I call bullshit, because there is NO WAY that any hard drive is going to last 228 years.

So, then what does it mean, and how long will a hard drive last that is spec'd at "2 million hours"?

It is the average time between failures in a large population of drives. In your example, a population of 1000 drives can expect a failure every 2000 hours (2 million hours / 1000).

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A backup a day keeps DR away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_time ... n_failures

Helium disks have more platters as the friction is lower. Servers with millions of disks can use MTBF to estimate how many spare drives will be needed before a forklift upgrade is needed.

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USB 3.5" enclosures are $19 USD postage paid from China, I own several

Not sure how upgrading server with forklifts would work... is this because they 'hold' more data? or because you 'drive' a foklift? Storage on Pallets instead of platters is an interesting Idea, but I have not heard of drives coming from CHEP or Loscam as yet. Also would be quite cumbersome for a home user. Bunnings could store a lot on their shelves, maybe they are the next Data Centre?

Which, according to my 8th grade math means that 2 million hours PER DRIVE is average, and that some get less and some get more. I don't see why the point of the thread had to be clouded with the introduction of a "million" drives (multiplying both sides of an equation by a million) and then reducing the number to 2,000 hours out of those million drives. Multiply by a million, then divide by a million, "TA DAH! Lookit what I did, aren't I clever."

Yeah, no. Point was clearly made that I think the 2 million hour average time for failures is bullshit. Made up. False. Lie. Marketing horseshit. Unless someone knows something I'm missing, because I think it's 100% bullshit. Take a 2 million hours, divide by 24 hours, then divide by 365 days in a year means that on average a drive lasts 228 years. Complete bullshit. Now multiply that 228 years by a million hard drives, then divide by the number of hard drives and PRESTO! it's 228 years. Utter horseshit.

Why is it that I'm on HDD Guru, THE place online where you find supposed "experts" in hard drives and they pull rabbits from hats, multiple by a million, then divide by a million, wave a magic wand, shout "ABRACADABRA", and then stand around proud of themselves like they just DID SOMETHING, and somehow magically have the illusion that they KNOW SOMETHING that the general public might not know. Meaning it's not just the MTBF factor that's utter horseshit, but it's the supposed "answer" to my question that is also horseshit. If I wanted a retarded, low-IQ and dumbed down response to my question, I would have asked ChatGPT or the nearest Somalian.

Unless I'm missing something, and if so, what is it?

MTBF actually reflects drive.hours, not hours. It reflects the total operating time of a population of drives.

MTBF does not remain constant throughout the entire life of a drive. That should be obvious to anyone with at least two neurons. At 10 years, the MTBF could fall to 20000 drive.hours rather than 2 million, in which case a population of 1000 10-year-old drives would be failing every 20 hours.

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A backup a day keeps DR away.

Just ignore it, as it's obvious that a single hard drive won't last millions of hours, no matter how you fiddle with the numbers.

It's the same with gigabytes on a sticker. You buy a drive with 4 terabytes written on it in huge letters, you plug it in, and it says 3.5 terabytes. They might even write on your hard drive in smaller letters that 1 gigabyte is 1 billion bytes, but you expect to see 4 terabytes where you see 3.5, and that's not what you paid for! And there's plenty of this kind of "honest" deception going on around the world.

At best, a hard drive will last 40,000-50,000 hours, but if you get a defective one, it won't even last a year, but that's what you have a warranty for.

The hard drives currently being produced and sold are of roughly the same quality. In the past, there were problems with certain series of hard drives, with one in four failing within a very short time (a few months or a little over a year), but that's no longer the case.

MTBF is a figure that results from the annualised failure rate (AFR).

AFR = 1 year / MTBF x 100% = 8766 hours / 2 million hours x 100 = 0.438%

The real AFR figures compiled by BackBlaze are about 4 times higher, so their actual MTBF is 500K hours.

Let's say you have a population of 1000 new drives. After one year let's say that 4 have failed.

MTBF = total drive.hours / number of failed drives = 1000 x 8766 / 4 = 2.2 million hours

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.

Vendor marketing statistics are either Bullshit or Horseshit. They are essentially the same thing, but horseshit can sometimes have a use if you sprinkle enough of it around.

There is no way anyone, not even the vendor will know how many will fail, and even less likely to be able to tell which ones no matter what the test. The general population don't care about exact specs, nor understand them. The data HAS to be dumbed down. You have to say SOMETHING... when you buy a 4TB disk and it reports 3.5TB, that IS what you pay for. The Spec data is there, it is not deception. Motorcycles are commonly rated as, for example a 100, 250, 500.. but their engine capacity is actually say 249CC labelled as a 250. Things cost us $5 but are $4.99. There may be only 2 people on the planet in any given week even trying to understand what MTBF means!

not sure how fzabkars answer was dumbed down when it explained exactly what it means

Well, I did it, and I wouldn’t say that ChatGPT gave a worse answer than a real person. Ask the machine the right questions and you will get the right answer. Yes, it missed some things that a person who held a hard drive in his hands and had real experience in using it knows, and could not find the proposed datasheet on the Seagate website and read in it that that particular model is an SMR hard drive that is not worth buying, and it has not a 3-year warranty, but 2, but it did not offer it for purchase in the end. It only recommended Toshiba and Western Digital.

All the answers together, therefore, the machine gave in less than 20 seconds. I spent a lot more asking questions and taking a screenshot...

https://i.ibb.co/1Gd4xdCT/e00.png

I would say with lots of things it is

Tell the machine the right Answers and you will get the right answer.

or

Ask the machine questions and you will get answers.

or

Ask the machine the right questions and you will get something that sounds like the right answer.

But often it does help you flesh something out from a starting point and get somewhere quite further in a very short amount of time.