OK, your adaptives are in mcu.

Anyway, the pcb is fixable, i think....

Janos

Best way is IR Soldering Equipment ..

Whatever you use, you have to be very careful. There is a big solder pad in the middle of the chip and the chip is held in place with adhesive before the heat is applied = Not meant to be removed. Buy four or five donors. When you can remove them and replace them successfully, you are ready.

For a frying pan, use a soldering pre-heater/under heater, good IR equipment will have this already. Ours cost >12,000 GBP (apprx 20k USD) and it can do these chips.

Now comes the spoiler. If the Marvel processor is blown, and the ROM is embedded, then what is thev point of swap ?

Daisy

BGA serious rework require infrared equipment. Yes, you can try these homegrown solutions, and maybe if you're lucky enough it will work but you are more likely going to destroy the chip without temperature control. Also, resoldering that way is not reliable. I have done a lot of experiments, REMOVING chips is easy, to resolder reliably IS NOT. Some people told me that reballing was only wasted time and money... well, all the other solutions were not definitive and delivered neverending problems right from the start. It's not my cup of tea, I want to sleep quietly at night - That's why I bought some equipment....

They didn't prove it because they didn't resolder it

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Other than making DR impossible upon PCB failure what is the purpose of having a matching PCB and drive? Is this common on other brands of drives or can PCBs usually be swapped on most other drives?

The only BGA work I do is on notebooks with broken solder connections. I hit them with a heat gun. But removing and replacing? No way, not for me.

Well, now that I said that I'll probably take one off something and try putting it back on.

The talented Russian with the frying pan and light bulb is beyond my imagination. He missed his calling . . . he should have been a brain surgeon. I don't believe it.

BGA repair normally requires and expensive rework station, using infrared, high magnification with display, and precision placement tools. All of the contacts are underneath the BGA chip: imagine rows of little tiny balls of solder on flat pads. If you move the IC a millimeter during placement, molten balls of solder just might merge and short. It's impossible to see the quality of the joints without an X-Ray.

Another problem is that heat must be applied with precision or else you'll fry the chip. if you remove the IC and there is a problem with the solder pattern, you must lay down another solder mask after cleaning up the original. This isn't something you are likely to be successful at without LOTS of practice.

So let's forget about changing the chips. If the S/N can be read, then much of the circuit must be working. I'd use signature analysis gear to compare the circuit of a known good board with another.

Outside of that, the only practical option that I can think of is to try another PCB (I recently had a 1234GSX that could read with the first replacement board that I tried, although I needed a PC3000 to get the data). Match the white sticker on the component side of the PCB (the one with 5 characters). Also match the firmware on the front label (e.g. 010 D0/AS021G) and country of origin, and you have a chance, but not a good one.

Jon

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This is the Job for people who is a cellular Phone technician. mostly of Cellular Phone technician have the ability and experience in soldering BGA chip.
as I know they just use standard soldering machine called Hot Gun. maybe a good quality one and they keep secret for this tools. But ALL I can see is just a Hot Gun.
I ever try to ask them how to perform this. first desolder this BGA chip from its PCB. and before you try to solder it back. need to clean the PCB and print the pin below BGA chip using "pin print platter" this platter got lot of model caused not ALL BGA Chip have the same pin structure. But the important one is not only this,.. we must got well trained and need lot of experience for this.

I ever try to send them this Toshiba PCB. and ask them to solder this BGA Chip for me.
and they do it for me. but I need to wait about for 3 - 4 day.

Thanks

AP

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Tried a hot gun - paint stripper - on scrap board : disaster. Surrounding components blown away, pcb affected and the bga itself. I won't change my equipment, these things are either internet bullshit or probably some other things are done when using hot air gun. Btw, I also have pro hot air smd rework station, doesn't work with bgas either. There's only one McGyver and only one Wile E. Coyote.

New heard of the frying pan....but I have heard of chip-mining via electric iron and tweezers... Anyone use the Zeph airpencil?

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BlackST,

I agree with you from my own experience.

1. The "iron & tweezer" method is nonsense. It is very hard to pick up a BGA chip straight up with tweezers. You need a vacuum tool; nothing less.

2. The hot gun method is fine for people who want to salvage parts from a PCB. But I seriously doubt anyone does quality BGA rework with one, for many reasons.

3. Ditto with the frying pan.

OK, suppose now that you've successfully removed the BGA chip using one of the above "methods." What if the ball pattern is defective, e.g. two or three of the balls have stuck to one another? Or the pattern on the PCB is damaged? What is the next step for you Gilligan's Islanders?

I use a Hart hot air station that can heat the top or bottom or both of a PCB. It's great for non-BGA chip swaps.

Years ago Apple had a simple manufacturing / soldering problem with small BGA video ICs they used on the iBooks. After lots of thermal cycling, the solder joints underneath the BGA would become intermittent.

Simple fix, right? Just heat the chip and apply appropriate vertical pressure . . .

None of these "simple" fixes held up. And sometimes the amount of heat needed to reflow the BGA was enough to kill the IC.

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Anyone have success with a different approach? How about a conductive epoxy placed carefully on each ball? Or perhaps even a conductive gel, and manually holding the BGA down? It's not like we need to fix it permanently.

I hate BGA. I don't trust a solder connection I can't see.

I'm having great success with chip quick. I think its the best thing I've ever tried and even know people who switched to using this over what they'd been using for rework. If interested, I can send a link...i searched the forum, and haven't seen it mentioned at all, which I found surprising...it makes quick work of high density chips like this...in the end, though, technique and quality and quantity of coffee used is most important....

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Reballing. Period.

I made a reference to this product before on this forum, and provided a link.

AFAIK, it's fine with SOJ type packages but has really nothing to offer for BGA rework. Am I wrong?

Jon

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That certainly takes it out of the frying pan an into the fire, doesn't it??

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no, you're correct......I got away from the Toshiba PCB's Marvel BGA and just kinda mentioning various products I've been using...I've been fooling with alot of Marvel's lately and none of them are BGA...the chipquick works really great on these and is so low temp, that I've not ruined one...

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I am quite sure it will work if you transfer the main CPU to a healthy donor. The main cpu contains the adaptive data without which it will not work. I did a few of these before and it worked. The typical symptom failure is that the disk is quiet with power connection.

Only problem is this is using BGA soldering so you need the right tools and care. Just hot air and normal soldering tool is unlikely to get it to work as the precision level is high and too risky for you not to have the proper tools. Once you short the main cpu due to improper soldering, it may no longer be possible for you to do further recovery

Some people could be so predictable especially when the crowd effect is on the place
1. I didn't say a word about re-balling and I didn't say they didn't do it. But you made an assumption that they didn't and you are trying to use this assumption as a fact and argument in your discourse
2. I wrote they have used frying pan AND powerful light bulb (so that's TWO heaters) but everybody so liked words "frying pan", so everybody didn't really think how it can work

Most of the people like see what they want to see, so they can't see the truth
Just think in one moment how politicians can use you because you are so easy to manipulate

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Doomer,

I am sorry that you seem to take this debate personally . . . . it's not personal.

I don't see that politics or crowd behavior has anything to do with it.

I simply don't see how someone who has figured out how to remove the BGA package successfully (and I don't doubt that can be done with a light bulb & etc.) can successfully position and reflow a replacement using those primitive tools. I think if I did it I might get luck 1 in 10 times. But maybe I am just a vanka, and this guy is a genius . . . .

BTW, I appreciate the advice that you so often share.

Jon

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