Will some people in this forum jeopardize our bread and butter for 2009

I really admire BlackST and others for speaking out loud, "send it to DR company" " Dont spend money, live without your data", Bravo brother!! BRAVO!!

We should suggest "newbie with few or zero posting" to seek their closest data recovery in their region. Why giving it for free where other small DR people can earn their bread and butter?

Happy New Year 2009, I hope this year we are not as dumb ass as 2008

!!

Agreed. I wish that newbies would not get upset when info is not provided to satisfaction here publicly. I would like everyone to try to understand and respect research and knowledge for this New Year! I feel that companies like Ace, SD, BVG, Atola spend much money on research, development, reverse-engineering, etc.... Also, let's not forget that many of us do this research also. Recently, we spent much money and time and equipment to solve a problem on some newer drives. This information in undocumented. I would never expect anyone to give their hard-earned solutions away to me. I have happily traded and paid for "information" from others. I would encourage others to do the same. Many get upset because they want answers and solutions for free. Why? Do they not value others' knowledge? I don't understand it. All knowledge, whether in books or not is of value to me. If you seek any type of professional knowledge or expert advice in this world, you should have to pay or trade. Since when is any kind of pro advice free (Legal, University, Medical)? I have high respect and value for knowledge. I get paid each day for mine. Many people get upset about not giving answers and knowledge away. But, the problem with this is simple: Other individuals and other companies have spent much time and money on finding these solutions. Many of us have spent tens of thousands (and more) just to get some basic tools and books. Ask a doctor or lawyer to sit with you for free instead. Sometimes you can get spiritual advice for free if you are lucky...LOL. Either you are SERIOUS DR person who owns or works for real DR company, or maybe you are hobbyist. Either way, you must have the tools. Only expensive quality tools come with detailed manuals and documentation, support, etc. I understand that people want to learn. We are all learning all of the time. But I had to pay a great deal of money for my basic education at the University also. I am still paying for it! LOL. Cheers! Happy 2009 to all!

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Agree with u head crash, Happy New year too

Regards

Sinceraly

Alberto

No doubt this forum is very powerful and the participants have great knowledge in data recovery, knowledge gathered from sacrificial in time and money must be turn into some form of rewards such as salary and not just "pride".

What i am trying to emphazise here is this, if you want to share your knowledge share it with those who contributes, those who are in this field, those who rely on their bread and butter. Once you have passed on your knowledge the "newbie" will just simply say "thank you so much" and then vanished and never come back.

Headcrash, BlackST and those who agree with this idea of recommending newbie with few posts to a data recovery company in their region actually promotes jobs hence bread and butter for their family.

I certainly agree, Happy New Year to all GURUs.

hmmm in a way you could be right
some kid going to start up a data recovery business or novice person
got a pc system and some software that it.

but in another way we are hear to share our data recovery problems or tips

have to say most members will help each other out
and most of you have helped me out
and i thank you for this.

but there some members who say

why should i show you
your not giving me anything back in return.



jeopardize our bread and butter for 2009 in a way never
as most of us keep secrets in a way that we wont tell other members how to do it.

happy new year

Hi guys.

Possibly as one of the newbies you guys are talking about here I'd like to put my 2c worth in......

My background:
I am a 'backyard'/hobbyist PC builder/repairer. It is an element of my employment (doubling as the 'IT guy') but only because I am lucky enough to work in a small non-profit business, where my boss likes to take full advantage of the skill set of employees. PCs have been a passion for me since early school life in the 80s & some people are surprised that I have not followed that path as a profession, but I enjoy working with people most, despite my passion for machines and electronics.

My 2c worth
I can understand many of your concerns about giving away your hard won knowledge. If your "bread and butter" rely on something such as DR, then it is probably natural that you do not wish to give something away which may reduce your income. Especially if that knowledge has had a significant cost associated for you (be it cash or otherwise).

On the other hand, this conversation has an element of "protecting intellectual property" to it. Whenever I think of protecting intellectual property, I wonder where we (as a race) would be were intellectual property rights invented around the time of some our greatest achievements? A couple that spring to mind are fire and the wheel! Looking a little closer to here and now... Imagine if when we brought a car, we had to pay royalties to the inventor of every single component? I doubt most of us could afford to drive were that the case. We'd probably struggle to be able to afford a cab fare or even a push bike! Perhaps that's overdoing it but I guess you probably get my point.

I have a somewhat vested interest in this discussion as you guys have knowledge that I want I am currently looking at buying a local internet cafe that is only making a modest profit and I am looking for ways to increase this profit margin. Obviously I plan to take my PC building and repair skills so that will help, but to be able to offer basic DR would be a plus (even if I don't end up buying it, it would still be a plus to add basic DR to my skill list). I have made inquires via email about the purchase of a PC-3000 or similar, but I guess if I spend that much I will need to market the service more aggressively that I would perhaps desire (to offset the cost). Currently there is only one other DR company (approx 200kms away) operating in my state so I guess I have a small but potentially captive market.

I do not know exactly how I can contribute to 'earn' some of your knowledge, especially considering that I probably have very little to offer you guys here? Any ideas?

Agree with HeadCrash

Happy New Year 2009 to all HDDGuru members

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NICE to KNOW....
Helping people is not only teaching HOW to??.
Giving advice is not always teaching HOW TO
We are trying to minimize human error with maximum effort.
That's what we think is the best for helping people..


HAPPY NEW YEAR 2009.......
may in 2009 will bring us better life.....
living with a better tomorrow.....
AMENnnnnnnn.............................

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СУТИОНО / АПИНГ

I've always been amazed at just how closed and secretive the data recovery world is -- I can't think of anything that compares.

Unless you've been trained by others, good DR knowledge and techniques are usually hard-won, requiring a sizable investment of time (at least) as well as money. Knowledge -- the fruit of our labors -- is intangible, and that which we have acquired through toil is intellectual property. But comparing this knowledge to "fire" and the "wheel" is totally amiss.

People who don't produce the intangible product don't place much value on it, but those who have invested themselves certainly do. For example, people who develop software deserve to be paid for their time, just as people who toil to make tangibles do.

I often search newsgroups and the like for knowledge about PCs and software, and I'm always grateful when someone takes the time to share good info. But I don't expect someone to give me a step-by-step sequence for repairing my PC, either!

There are lots of problems with newbees on this site. First, we have no way to gauge their skill sets -- a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, especially in the wrong hands. So in trying to help someone out, we may actually be doing them a disservice.

Second, this is one field where a single question begets MANY more. Few have time or patience for hand-holding with a complete stranger.

Third, there is no expectation that a newbee will contribute useful knowledge in kind. You help them out and off they go, often without a bit of courtesy. Or they get really mad when you don't tell them everything they need to know. That discourages everyone from helping anyone!

That's why I am in favor of a forum for pros, in which cooperation and sharing are the norm -- not the one-sided transactions that we have here. Everyone in that situation can benefit, instead of a single anonymous stranger.

Jono

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A forum of professionals. It's already been done...

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Buy your friends Toshiba\Hitachi and your enemies Seagate.

As a newbie I dont agree with a lot of what is said here.

Firstly, the internet is largely about sharing of information.

Grandma and grandpa that want there photos back arent going to spend $1,000 that a lot of DR companies want to get there data back, but they may be prepared to ask a hobbyist. So who are you protecting by not talking to hobbyists (aka newbie) on here? If they are not going to pay you the $1,000 then you are not protecting your income - because they aint prepared to pay it.

At some point in life - you were all newbies. If you were all faced with stone walls who didnt provide you with any information then how would you ever have learnt?

And as someone pointed out, how can a newbie give back if they are a newbie, even if they have the best intention to do so, it is not possible.

I want to learn. So what do I do if i cant come here?

PS: I assume that by merely disagreeing with the old salts like BlackST I have given myself the kiss of death here?

Firstly, Internet is only a connection between networks. This is YOUR opinion.

Why don't you buy yourself a PC3000 UDMA , get some scrap drives for few $ and do some experimenting ? Pay the annual fee support, and you'll be assisted and helped if necesary (they can't do the job for you, obviously).
Join training courses (they will cost you $$$$$$$$, oh sure they will....) and you'll improve your skills.
And then, assume the risk and - if possible and if you want - start a business.
Tell us how it was.

P.S. nothing personal.

Can you recommend an active site for pros?

Jono

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http://www.datasaversllc.com

Grandma and grandpa.



Not everyone charges $1000. Most of our recoveries are done for $349.



I couldn't find anyone to teach me DR for free, with a few exceptions (online resources and the like). I had to purchase the gear and the training to do it right. Maybe others are luckier or smarter than I.



Keep surfing and practicing on unimportant drives.

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the service has a regular fee that makes up of several component (tools, working hours, other expenses concerning running a company...)
If u begin to provide $50 service for grandma, what do you say for the companies that will support your living by good recoveries??? They will righteously feel to be ripped of, won't they?
If someone starts degrading the value of the service by providing it on 10% value, the whole field will die out because the overall income won't cover the overall costs of R&D. So if u want to get into this field, it must not be your goal to break the prices cause u will die out soon as well. Use your brain.
Not to speak about those who provide service using SW they never paid for...
Easy money for some time, but till when...?
Man, it is absolutely normal that U have to pay the price of starting a business. Think of any other speciality, U have to build a factory to produce things, U have to learn a lot to produce valuable SW and so on.
I tend to vomit when somebody getting near this field start to pressurize others because they just don't give out info that costed many $$$ and time for them...
Why don't U walk straight to the 'owner' of Mercedes Benz and ask half of his factory properties??? Cause that's obviously a nonsense. The same is true for information that has the same value, despite of what u think of it.

excuse me.
pepe

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Adatmentés - Data recovery

Newbie here. This site saved me a bundle. Sure I got curious about 3-wire solution or step-by-step video to wake up my 7200.11 but I am realistic about technical challenge and extend of my patience to be able to attempt such a thing on my own. Good for the deserving tech if they got 2 min fix to recover my data!

Received excellent service at competitive rate from a fellow member.
Cheers to drccsc

Happy New Years to hddguru

Forum is supposed to be free and it is up to the individuals to provide the long hard earn information. IMHO the newbie should do their own research themselves rather than relying on a quick and simple answer.

The best solutions to newbie is to refer them to their country of origin or someone reputable we know of in this forum.

I wish this forum has a section for password locked "HDD PRO ONLY" or at least count the number of postings then apply for HDD pro Only password.
Let's say for example: 20 postings = toddler, 50 postings = Kindy, 100 postings = teenage punk, 200 = grown up adult, etc hehehhehe

Happy New Year to you All Gurus!

Hi guys
Happy new year to all and thankyou for the answers I have been provided with over my time here .
The way I see it I was a new started here but had around 14 years of experience in my own electronics servicing and of business.

I have come here looking for help with issues I had after investing major amounts of money on facilities tools and sparedrives to learn with all which is a commitment to data recovery business, while I have been given info on what to look for and do with a drive I really think that withought all the correct tools have I would not getthose jobs recovered so itwas having tools and help from the forum that helped.

For new guys who come and ask questions about recovery of a drive and they don't really have much of an understanding of computers and drives and the tools providing all the info will not help them and so will not affect our income,

I have found in my time many of these customers will not want to pay more than a bit for recoveries and so they are not my target customers

They don't see the investment required in order to do thing correctly

Mabye some sort of closed forum based on what tools you have would be good, but end of day there really is no need or an obligation to provide info if you don't want to. If you don't answer they won't come looking

It has a private section with chat rooms and is as active as you want to make it.

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Buy your friends Toshiba\Hitachi and your enemies Seagate.