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 Post subject: Bad Sectors and System Lockups: related?
PostPosted: July 16th, 2009, 6:06 
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Joined: July 16th, 2009, 3:57
Posts: 14
Hello everybody,

I have been experiencing system lockups for a while and have yet to be able to determine the cause.
During these lockups I had to forceshut the system down so I have run several checkdisks and have got these results which I would like an opinion on.

The main thing is these 8 kb of bad sectors and reallocated and pending bad blocks in Active Smart.
The pending blocks in Active Smart never actually disappear.
From what I understood from other posts this means that the disk run out of free blocks to reallocate the bad ones?

I have also run the Seatool Complete Test but it failed.

I don't know if these bad blocks might be the cause of the system lockups but I would still like to know how bad they are and if I need to send the laptop for repair since it still is under warranty.

Another thing I would like to ask is this: I generally create system images for backup with Acronis True Image.
I have not been unable to do so recently since every time the system would lockup.
I only managed to create an image by running the application from boot and telling it to ignore errors.
Now, although the final system image validated as correct, I would like to know, in case I will have to get a new hd, if I use said image will it "transfer" the bad sectors on the new hd as well?

Many thanks to all who will take the time to help

Image
Image

Nome registro: Application
Origine: Microsoft-Windows-Wininit
Data: 15/07/2009 17.13.29
ID evento: 1001
Categoria attività:Nessuno
Livello: Informazioni
Parole chiave: Classico
Utente: N/D
Computer: MYPC
Descrizione:


Controllo in corso del file system su D:
Il file system è di tipo NTFS.
L'etichetta del volume è DATA.

Il disco sarà ora controllato come pianificato.
Il disco sarà ora controllato.
87744 record file elaborati.

56 record file di grandi dimensioni elaborati.

0 record file danneggiati elaborati.

0 record EA elaborati.

0 record reparse elaborati.

90298 voci di indice elaborate.

0 file non indicizzati elaborati.

87744 descrittori di protezione elaborati.

Pulizia di 28 voci inutilizzate dall'indice $SII del file 0x9.
Pulizia di 28 voci inutilizzate dall'indice $SDH del file 0x9.
Pulizia dei descrittori di protezione inutilizzati 28.
1278 file di dati elaborati.

CHKDSK sta verificando il journal USN...
18069944 byte USN elaborati.

Verifica del journal USN completata.
Verifica dei dati dei file in corso (fase 4 di 5))...
87728 file elaborati.

Verifica dei dati del file completata.
CHKDSK sta verificando la spazio disponibile (fase 5 di 5)...
1023760 cluster liberi elaborati.

Verifica dello spazio disponibile completata.
CHKDSK ha individuato spazio libero su disco contrassegnato come
allocato nella mappa di bit del volume.
Correzioni apportate al file system.

119049061 KB di spazio totale su disco.
114764712 KB in 20506 file.
14016 KB in 1279 indici.
8 KB in settori danneggiati.
175285 KB in uso dal sistema.
65536 KB occupati dal file registro.
4095040 KB disponibili su disco.

4096 byte in ogni unità di allocazione.
29762265 unità totali di allocazione su disco.
1023760 unità di allocazione disponibili su disco.

Informazioni interne:
c0 56 01 00 dd 53 00 00 dc 8a 00 00 00 00 00 00 .V...S..........
46 1d 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F...............
42 00 00 00 12 75 06 77 08 84 23 00 08 7c 23 00 B....u.w..#..|#.

Controllo in corso del file system su C:
Il file system è di tipo NTFS.
L'etichetta del volume è ACER.

Il disco sarà ora controllato come pianificato.
Il disco sarà ora controllato.
300928 record file elaborati.

Eliminazione del segmento record file orfano 229493.
706 record file di grandi dimensioni elaborati.

0 record file danneggiati elaborati.

0 record EA elaborati.

74 record reparse elaborati.

La voce spade_building.ogg dell'indice $I30 nel file 0x34487 punta al file inutilizzato 0x38072.
Eliminazione della voce di indice spade_building.ogg nell'indice $I30 del file 214151.
La voce SPADE_~1.OGG dell'indice $I30 nel file 0x34487 punta al file inutilizzato 0x38072.
Eliminazione della voce di indice SPADE_~1.OGG nell'indice $I30 del file 214151.
La voce stars_of_prestige.ogg dell'indice $I30 nel file 0x34487 punta al file inutilizzato 0x38075.
Eliminazione della voce di indice stars_of_prestige.ogg nell'indice $I30 del file 214151.
La voce stars_up.ogg dell'indice $I30 nel file 0x34487 punta al file inutilizzato 0x38076.
Eliminazione della voce di indice stars_up.ogg nell'indice $I30 del file 214151.
La voce STARS_~1.OGG dell'indice $I30 nel file 0x34487 punta al file inutilizzato 0x38075.
Eliminazione della voce di indice STARS_~1.OGG nell'indice $I30 del file 214151.
359998 voci di indice elaborate.

CHKDSK sta recuperando i file perduti.
1 file non indicizzati elaborati.

Recupero del file orfano PAFD26~1.CAT (43930) nel file di directory 25904.
Recupero del file orfano Package_7_for_KB937286~31bf3856ad364e35~x86~it-IT~6.0.1.18000.cat (43930) nel file di directory 25904.
300928 descrittori di protezione elaborati.

Pulizia di 1120 voci inutilizzate dall'indice $SII del file 0x9.
Pulizia di 1120 voci inutilizzate dall'indice $SDH del file 0x9.
Pulizia dei descrittori di protezione inutilizzati 1120.
29536 file di dati elaborati.

CHKDSK sta verificando il journal USN...
35015048 byte USN elaborati.

Verifica del journal USN completata.
Verifica dei dati dei file in corso (fase 4 di 5))...
300912 file elaborati.

Verifica dei dati del file completata.
CHKDSK sta verificando la spazio disponibile (fase 5 di 5)...
2072153 cluster liberi elaborati.

Verifica dello spazio disponibile completata.
CHKDSK ha individuato spazio libero su disco contrassegnato come
allocato nella bitmap della Tabella file master (MFT).
CHKDSK ha individuato spazio libero su disco contrassegnato come
allocato nella mappa di bit del volume.
Correzioni apportate al file system.

59295463 KB di spazio totale su disco.
50479140 KB in 221711 file.
113860 KB in 29537 indici.
8 KB in settori danneggiati.
413843 KB in uso dal sistema.
65536 KB occupati dal file registro.
8288612 KB disponibili su disco.

4096 byte in ogni unità di allocazione.
14823865 unità totali di allocazione su disco.
2072153 unità di allocazione disponibili su disco.

Informazioni interne:
80 97 04 00 78 d5 03 00 36 93 06 00 00 00 00 00 ....x...6.......
75 02 00 00 4a 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 u...J...........
42 00 00 00 12 75 06 77 08 84 26 00 08 7c 26 00 B....u.w..&..|&.

Controllo del disco completato.
Attendere il riavvio del computer.


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 Post subject: Re: Bad Sectors and System Lockups: related?
PostPosted: July 16th, 2009, 11:13 
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Joined: October 21st, 2005, 0:45
Posts: 1517
Location: Mexico
a italian question for an italian guru .. blackst :D


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 Post subject: Re: Bad Sectors and System Lockups: related?
PostPosted: July 16th, 2009, 11:34 
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Joined: July 18th, 2006, 3:05
Posts: 7476
Location: ITALY
In this order :

- YES, BSODs and system lockup/freeze can be related to bad blocks (especially if system files or page file are involved)
- Forcing the system to shut down is one of the most risky things to do to a disk because of unpredictable problems that can arise (the ultimate action that the PC does is to cut power and the drive in that moment can be performing autonomous actions). Nevertheless, in some situations it's the only thing you can do.
- Making an image with Ghost or TI or similar can be safe UNTIL there are NO unallocated bads. Otherwise the program will halt or suggest you to continue ignoring the bad block if the appropriate option is set.
- Cloning a disk to a good one where the filesystem has allocated some bads (marked as damaged) will "carbon copy" that situation even if the new drive is brand new and 100% good. But this is ininfluent.
- The drive needs to be serivced or repaired (RECERTIFIED)
- About this, No software can help you, specific procedures not at user level have to be performed on the drive to completely fix it, recertify and make it error free (if possible and if no major error has occured, otherwise the drive has to be discarded). So, don't ask about programs that do this and that, drive mfg. "tools" and so on. I have only my opinion about this and I do refurbish drives everyday so I know my stuff. Period.
- Finally, a note : hope you are not making a backup on the same drive : if so, keep in mind the definiton of "KEYFOB : an accessory that helps you loosing ALL your keys AT THE SAME TIME".

Nothing else to say...


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 Post subject: Re: Bad Sectors and System Lockups: related?
PostPosted: July 16th, 2009, 12:45 
Offline

Joined: July 16th, 2009, 3:57
Posts: 14
BlackST wrote:
In this order :

- YES, BSODs and system lockup/freeze can be related to bad blocks (especially if system files or page file are involved)
- Forcing the system to shut down is one of the most risky things to do to a disk because of unpredictable problems that can arise (the ultimate action that the PC does is to cut power and the drive in that moment can be performing autonomous actions). Nevertheless, in some situations it's the only thing you can do.
- Making an image with Ghost or TI or similar can be safe UNTIL there are NO unallocated bads. Otherwise the program will halt or suggest you to continue ignoring the bad block if the appropriate option is set.
- Cloning a disk to a good one where the filesystem has allocated some bads (marked as damaged) will "carbon copy" that situation even if the new drive is brand new and 100% good. But this is ininfluent.
- The drive needs to be serivced or repaired (RECERTIFIED)
- About this, No software can help you, specific procedures not at user level have to be performed on the drive to completely fix it, recertify and make it error free (if possible and if no major error has occured, otherwise the drive has to be discarded). So, don't ask about programs that do this and that, drive mfg. "tools" and so on. I have only my opinion about this and I do refurbish drives everyday so I know my stuff. Period.
- Finally, a note : hope you are not making a backup on the same drive : if so, keep in mind the definiton of "KEYFOB : an accessory that helps you loosing ALL your keys AT THE SAME TIME".

Nothing else to say...


Hello BlackST,

Many grazie for the detailed answer.
I will ship the laptop to warranty: I am lucky I still got 1 month left!

Since they asked me to explain the problem is there anything specific, more than I wrote in my first post, that I can say to be sure they find the correct problem and hopefully consider it like you did and change the drive?
Regarding backing data I wonder if it is possible to find out where the bad blocks are and if so just image the good partition (like C is healthy, D damaged).
I have no clue so I am just guessing.

If not could anyone suggest the best option for data backup mainly for the actual os and it's programs\settings since data I can just copy over?

Many thanks

P.s. No I wasn't backing up on the same drive


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 Post subject: Re: Bad Sectors and System Lockups: related?
PostPosted: July 16th, 2009, 13:45 
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Joined: July 18th, 2006, 3:05
Posts: 7476
Location: ITALY
Best options for data/backup ? There are a lot of programs on the market , i.e. Norton Ghost, Acronis True Image itself etc.
You can make an image of the working disk with OS only and in a couple of minute you can do "disaster recovery" assuming you have documents and so on already backed up. Just make a disk from image and you have working OS with all the drivers installed and the programs present at imaging time. Simple as A-B-C.

Don't forget to tell them that the drive seems to have developed problems and you want to have it REPLACED, otherwise the problem will appear again (i.e. if they do a "low level format" or so-called cosmetic erase of the disk.


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