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 Post subject: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 30th, 2011, 10:32 
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Joined: January 30th, 2011, 9:53
Posts: 4
Location: Germany
My partner's 2.5" portable La Cie Rugged 500Gb (firewire 800/400 & usb) Hard disk while connected by firewire was unplugged from a mac laptop without being properly ejected with Final Cut Pro running in the background. To our knowledge nothing was being written to the disk at the time.

The disk has irreplaceable data linked to her studies so she is practically in tears.

After that the disk is no longer detected by either windows or mac.

As soon as the disk is plugged in it makes a series of 3 synthesized beeps descending in tone from high to low in quick succession 5 times in a row followed by a very light mechanical head movement sound & then goes completely silent (disk is not spinning).

The sound is closer to some sort of synthesized beep code than the disk trying to spin up though I could be mistaken.

The disk has never been dropped or bumped.

I have tried connecting the disk via both firewire and usb to different computers with the same result.

I have also tried taking the disk out of its enclosure and connecting it with a sata to usb adapter with the same result.

The sound comes as soon as I give it power irrespective of whether a data cable is connected or not. The disk cannot be seen in the disk manager.

Could this be an issue on the system board of the disk and would changing the hard disk's system board with that from a disk of the same model have a chance of success?

I ask this after one site said that "Now with Samsung Hard drives the head disk assembly is matched to the logic board, meaning that it works only for the specific matching PCB and not any other donor PCB. ?
http://www.salvagedata.com/hard-drive/samsung-data-recovery/hm500ji/
However this seems to be the generic spiel they use for many drives so could be more aimed at incouraging the reader to send them business than accurate?

The disk inside is a Samsung Spinpoint
Model: HM500JI
HDD P/N HM500JI/Y
Rev. A


Looking online I see that I can purchase the HM500J1 I don't see however the HM500J1/Y . Is the model without the /Y likely to be the same and is there any risk in simply attaching the system board from another HM500J1 drive

I have read stories of giving the drive a bump or freezing it.

At this poing I'm willing to try anything.

I'd appreciate any help or suggestions especially any light that can be thrown on the the sound the drive is making.

Jed


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 30th, 2011, 13:07 
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Joined: May 21st, 2007, 16:10
Posts: 1592
Location: Gothenburg/ Sweden
Hi, if the information on the drive is importent you shall not even think of putting it into a freezer or bump it.
The problem with the drive is not the electronic board, it's else were.
You should consider to consult a data recovery company, at this stage it's probably not a too expensive cost for you, but as more you tinkering with it, the more difficult a recovery is going to be, and therefor more costfull.

If you don't have any problem with sending the drive to a recovery company, feel free to send me a PM... I'm in Sweden, or Pcimage in UK, or Dobrejevster in Belgium

Regards
Bosse

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Rescue IT Dataräddning Göteborg AB
http://www.rescue-it.se


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 30th, 2011, 17:08 
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Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 16960
Location: Australia
It sounds like a stiction fault.

See this thread, but heed the warnings:
http://forums.seagate.com/t5/FreeAgent- ... 242#M11384

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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 2:54 
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Joined: May 21st, 2007, 16:10
Posts: 1592
Location: Gothenburg/ Sweden
fzabkar are you nuts? You can't seriously give the guy the direction to bang the drive!!!
That kind of problem need to be fixed in a cleanroom enviroment.
You're making people gamble with their data, and it's not you that are picking up the pieces afterwards!
Stop giving people bad advices...

Regards/ Bosse

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Rescue IT Dataräddning Göteborg AB
http://www.rescue-it.se


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 3:56 
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Joined: December 27th, 2006, 10:15
Posts: 1852
Location: Belgium
I agree with Bosse.
If data is so important dont bang or freeze the drive.


Dobre

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Datarecovery in Belgium, Holland, France and Germany
Datarecoverytools http://www.drtools.eu


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps/stops UPDATE
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 4:55 
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Joined: January 30th, 2011, 9:53
Posts: 4
Location: Germany
Thank you for the suggestions already given.

Update: The hard drive in this YouTube video is making exactly the same sound as mine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YohQaYjXeF4

The same sound can also be heard in the link of first post by user tehcu at this link:
http://forum.hddguru.com/samsung-portable-500gb-dead-t14351.html

Maybe this could help someone to come up with a better prognosis

I am considering taking a peek at the hard drive in a DIY cleanroom environment, Plastic bin. glass top, sealed in gloves filtered air inlet and sealing in an operating vacuum cleaner hose for a while to cycle out the air along with any dust particles in it. A little silicon and duct tape should enable to make the contraption air tight.
I don't see why that couldn't do the trick and probably better than banging it.

We aren't really in a financial position now to dish out the €1000 and up cost that a data recovery company is likely to charge.


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 5:13 
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Joined: September 30th, 2005, 7:33
Posts: 849
Samsung hard drives produce error code by making computer's HDD LED to blink. Just connect the drive to a desktop computer and watch HDD LED. You'll see several long blinks and several short blinks. Tell us what you see.


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 5:14 
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Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 16960
Location: Australia
mr_spokk wrote:
fzabkar are you nuts? You can't seriously give the guy the direction to bang the drive!!!
That kind of problem need to be fixed in a cleanroom enviroment.
You're making people gamble with their data, and it's not you that are picking up the pieces afterwards!
Stop giving people bad advices...

Regards/ Bosse

If the OP is not willing to pay the cost of a professional job, and if he is not willing to open the drive, or if the drive needs to be realigned after replacing the cover, then slapping the drive is the last thing to try before binning it. Or do you have a better suggestion?

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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 5:57 
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Joined: December 27th, 2006, 10:15
Posts: 1852
Location: Belgium
I dont understand why everybody thinks DR should cost 1000 € +
My prices and many of my colleagues are well below that.
This is like a kind of urban legend.

Offcourse when the client wants the data yesterday and / or the drive has fallen and been tampered with then prices go up very fast.

Dobre

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Datarecovery in Belgium, Holland, France and Germany
Datarecoverytools http://www.drtools.eu


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 6:08 
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Joined: November 29th, 2006, 10:08
Posts: 7864
Location: UK
dobrevjetser wrote:
I dont understand why everybody thinks DR should cost 1000 € +
My prices and many of my colleagues are well below that.
This is like a kind of urban legend.

Offcourse when the client wants the data yesterday and / or the drive has fallen and been tampered with then prices go up very fast.

Dobre


Agree with Dobre, in a case like this (BEFORE tampering) it should cost €300 or even a little less

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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 6:44 
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Joined: July 18th, 2006, 3:05
Posts: 7476
Location: ITALY
Isn't this thread a movie already seen ? Thought you had been adviced.... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 6:59 
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Joined: August 31st, 2006, 17:53
Posts: 354
Location: Birmingham, Al
jedstern wrote:
The disk has irreplaceable data linked to her studies so she is practically in tears.


And now you want to try diy steps that could possible lose her
data forever?

Good luck


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 9:37 
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Joined: February 9th, 2009, 16:13
Posts: 2574
Location: Ontario, Canada
Hey this all makes sense. Assume that a $500 project is a $2000 project, so try destructive DIY solutions and cause the project to become unrecoverable or more than the originally feared $2000.

It has been my experience that most of the reasons why data recovery has the high price reputation is for a couple of reasons. The early data recovery pioneers could get away with charging whatever they wanted. But, the more common reason now is because end users and their technicians try everything they can first, before getting a free assessment and make the assumption that the price quoted is what they would have been quoted in the first place.

If you want your valuable data recovered at the lowest price possible, start with the free assessment of a professional data recovery lab. If you are quoted an out of the park price, you can then decide if you want to play the DIY game, or not. Of course, an out of the park price usually means that DIY is out of the question.

Good luck.

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Recovery Force Data Recovery


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 12:04 
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Joined: May 21st, 2007, 16:10
Posts: 1592
Location: Gothenburg/ Sweden
fzabkar wrote:
mr_spokk wrote:
fzabkar are you nuts? You can't seriously give the guy the direction to bang the drive!!!
That kind of problem need to be fixed in a cleanroom enviroment.
You're making people gamble with their data, and it's not you that are picking up the pieces afterwards!
Stop giving people bad advices...

Regards/ Bosse

If the OP is not willing to pay the cost of a professional job, and if he is not willing to open the drive, or if the drive needs to be realigned after replacing the cover, then slapping the drive is the last thing to try before binning it. Or do you have a better suggestion?


If you read ALL of the OP's post it's much better.
He's clearly stated that "The disk has irreplaceable data linked to her studies so she is practically in tears." So I don't think he'll bin it.
If he bang the drive he can be one/thousends that get lucky...but if he's one of the other 999? Are you willing to pay the difference?

So please, don't give people bad advices

Bosse

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Rescue IT Dataräddning Göteborg AB
http://www.rescue-it.se


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 12:07 
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Joined: May 21st, 2007, 16:10
Posts: 1592
Location: Gothenburg/ Sweden
BlackST wrote:
Isn't this thread a movie already seen ? Thought you had been adviced.... ;)


Yep :D , but some movies you like to see twice :mrgreen:

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Rescue IT Dataräddning Göteborg AB
http://www.rescue-it.se


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 12:46 
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Joined: October 28th, 2009, 14:35
Posts: 775
Location: Toronto
Indeed iv seen this movie before , and looks like ill make a guest appearance. Frank gave a link to a topic where the OPs problem is described. He told Op to BEWARE. The rest is in OPs hands. This is not a bad advice nor a good advice , its just a link to a topic.

That being said - Op, ur situation is DIYable but with SERIOUS risks. The sliders that provide the air cushion to the heads are griping the platters. Banging the drive MAY free them , but chances are that banging will stretch the fragile slider holders. The sliders will be lower then they should. The heads will park and then scratch the hell off ur platters effectively destroying the data. IMO take the drive to DR shop.


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 13:59 
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Joined: May 21st, 2007, 16:10
Posts: 1592
Location: Gothenburg/ Sweden
I think it's a very bad advice to even link to a sutch solution when the owner is desperate about her information!
If the info was "wasteable" then you can do whatever you want, but thats not the case here.

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Rescue IT Datarecovery service Sweden
Rescue IT Dataräddning Göteborg AB
http://www.rescue-it.se


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 17:23 
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Joined: July 18th, 2006, 3:05
Posts: 7476
Location: ITALY
If someone, whoever , is really desperate about loosing data wouldn't EVER HAVE THINK about Wile E. Coyote-ish attempts like gloveboxes / tupperware connected to vacuum cleaner etc. (I remember something like when Wile used a vacuum cleaner to catch Bugs Bunny....). Or as usual will it end in " I am going to learn about HDDs " thread ?

Chi vivra' vedra' ;)

(who lives, will see)


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 19:40 
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Joined: January 30th, 2011, 9:53
Posts: 4
Location: Germany
I am pleased to report a happy ending, had I seen that post suggesting professional data recovery could be closer to the €300 mark would probably have gone that route.

I'd like to thank everyone for their help.

I found a few video/audio clips of users who had similar drives with exactly the same symptoms/sound (this was a unique & distinct sound!) who had had positive experiences with the "Percussive Maintenance" technique.

Realising that this was risky I first looked at the internal layout of the heads of the drive and decided on giving the drive a tap towards the far right corner (if disk oriented with Printed Circuit Board upwards and connectors facing me) Assuming the heads had stiction on the landing zone towards center of the platter as seemed likely from what I had read online this would provide the best possibility of moving the heads off the landing zone with as little inertia as possible.

I tried the a couple taps of that corner into my palm keeping the disk as horizontal as possible to avoid the inertia making the heads tap disk's surface.

No luck, I wasn't willing to tap it as hard as some had suggested less I sabotage other options open to me. It was now the wee hours and knew from experience that tired minds make mistakes so gave it a break.

Next morning I decided that I could probably reproduce something close to a clean room environment with things from around the house (this contraption in was not in the end used however I thought I'd include how I made the contraption at the bottom of this post including link to a photo in the case that someone else wanted to give the idea a try)*.

I thought I'd give the "Percussive Maintenance" one last try before opening it, but decided to change the conditions a little by letting the drive heat up on my central heating radiator to I'd say about 40 degrees celcius (maybe equivalent to a quite hot shower)

I think this idea was partly inspired by something I'd read "that with age in some circumstances the protective surface of a hot platter could break down a little increasing stiction & that this could be compounded when the platter cooled"

I took the platter off of the radiator, plugged it into my computer & immediately gave it another tap as before (tap was even lighter than the one I'd given it previously)

And jackpot the drive spun up and was immediately recognized by the system. ( felt great:) I wasn't taking any chances and immediately copied of the data starting with the most critical content.

I think warming up the drive helped reduce the stiction though I can't be certain.

Tomorrow I will run some Samsung diagnostics on the drive and post what I find. Given what I've heard in other posts I wouldn't be surprised if the drive checks tests report the drive is in good health.

Even if that is the case I won't be using this drive as anything more than a backup in future and will be paying carefull attention that it is unmounted consistently.

One moral of the story is Back Up, Back Up then Back up some more, working in the IT field I've seen enough crashed data horror stories to know this but it's so easy to let one's guard down.

A note of caution, please don't try this without fully understanding what you are doing!: As a few experienced users have posted in most cases tapping a hard drive is going to be asking for trouble, if you don't know what you're doing better not unless you don't have anything to loose. In this case as stated the sound of the drive was unusual from most disk failures I've seen and quite distinct. The other users who tried this technique had similar model drives making a unique and distinctive sound as heard in the YouTube video link in my second post. Those users positive experience encouraged me to take a leap and try the risky "Percussive Maintenance" technique. If your symptoms differ in any way I would not try this. I'd hate someone to spoil their important data by trying this without first getting professional advice.




My DIY Clean-Room rig (was never put to use)
*I used a plastic bin, my partner's kitchen gloves, a thick transparent plastic bag, a Pringles style cardboard cocoa container with ends removed chopped in two to attach gloves, a couple fine paper napkins and new paper vacuum cleaner bag as air filters, a glass plate from my fridge as viewing window, our vacuum-cleaner as air pump, masking tape.
I washed/dried everything,
Cut a couple holes in the plastic bag & used the cardboard chocolate container cylinders to tape the gloves into the bottom of plastic sac,
Placed the glass plate onto top of bin leaving space for my arms on one end,
Taped the plastic bag with attached gloves over that space.
Enlarged the handle holes sealing my vacuum-cleaner hose into the side of one of the holes and covering the rest with a layer of new vacuum-cleaner bag then paper napkin over the top taped on from the outside of the box.

Had the "percussive maintenance" not resolved the issue I had then planned to:
1. Slightly loosen the torque screws on the drive
2. Put the drive inside box with my torque screw-driver leaving my usb to sata adapter attached to drive with cables sealed & dangling outside the box.
3. Seal the glass to top of bin with the masking tape .
4. Use the vacuum-cleaner to vacuum methodically all surfaces inside the box.
5. Leave the vacuum-cleaner running for 30 minutes to extract any dust particles suspended in the air.
6. Leaving the vacuum-cleaner running insert hands into gloves with spot-light positioned overhead, open the drive to see possition of heads.
7. Depending on what found connect drive to computer via cables left outside the box and find out what if any mechanic movement corresponded to the sounds made by the failed drive, take photo's and get consultation from there

Attachment:
File comment: Home brewed clean room contraption
diycleanroomrig.jpg
diycleanroomrig.jpg [ 110.14 KiB | Viewed 17282 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung HM500JI failed! makes 5x3 synth. beeps then stops
PostPosted: January 31st, 2011, 20:23 
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Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
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Location: Australia
Victory goes to the brave. :)

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